Ep #150: Stepmoms are Real Parents: An Interview with Mindy Kyle

Mikki: Welcome back to the podcast, and today is a day all about stepmoms and blended families. I'm so excited to dive into this topic because it's one that hits home for so many of us that are experiencing divorce or second marriages or third marriages. Listen, here's what happens: You fall madly in love and get married looking forward to a passionate, harmonious marriage, Maybe even being a stepmom sounds like lots of fun, with more kids to love and care for and have a good time with, you thought that you'd know what to do, Maybe you're already a mom, maybe not. But you thought you'd be comfortable and fulfilled as a stepmom. But for so many of us, that is not the case and that is not the experience and how life feels right now, and if that is you, today's episode will help you. Mindy Kyle, a Stepmom Support Coach is here to help us debunk the traditional roles, identities, and expectations of being a stepmom. This conversation is going to help you move from suffering to thriving in your blended family, I promise.

Mikki: Mindy is an LCS Certified Life Coach, Certified Positive Parenting Coach, and a Certified Blended Family Coach with over 15 years of experience specializing in the stepmom experience. Having become a stepmom to four children at the young age of 24, Mindy understands the unique challenges and complexity that come along with this role. And drawing from her own personal struggles, she is dedicated to helping other stepmoms navigate their incredibly complex journey with more calm and ease. I am so excited to have Mindy here. I cannot wait to dive in. So without further ado, let's take a listen.

Mikki: Welcome to Co-Parenting with Confidence, a podcast for those courageous moms out there who want to move past the conflict and frustration of divorce and show up as the mom they truly want to be. My name's Mikki Gardner. I'm a certified life and conscious parenting coach with my own personal dose of co-parenting experience. Throughout my co-parenting journey, I have learned to become confident in who I am as a woman and a mother, and I'm here to help you do the same. If you're ready to learn what it takes to become a great co-parent and an amazing example to your children, well, get ready and let's dive into today's episode.

Mikki: Hi, Mindy. I am so excited that you are on the podcast today. Thank you for coming.

Mindy: I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for the invite. I can't wait to chat with you. I've been following you, and I actually ordered your book before even meeting you. So this is a pleasure for me.

Mikki: Well, thank you. And I, as well, have been following you and love your work. And we were just chatting before this. I feel like we're very much aligned, and I think that's going to really create a beautiful conversation. 'Cause you really have a perspective that many of us don't get. And so I thought, who better to speak to the audience here today? But I want to talk directly to stepmoms today. If you're not a stepmom or you're a co-parenting mom, like keep listening, because we can all be in this position. I'm super excited. I did your bio, but I'd love for you, in your words, to kind of introduce yourself to the audience.

Mindy: So, I'm Mindy. I am a stepmom of four and a mom to two. I have been a stepmom for 15 years now. My husband and I celebrated our 15th year anniversary, and I came into this role at 24 years old. I had no kids of my own, and it was such a shocking experience for me coming in. I thought I knew what I was getting myself into, but I really had no clue. It was like being thrown into the deep end; you've never had any swimming lessons, and you're just like, "Okay, here we go. We're just going to figure this out." And a lot of it was just me really stumbling my way through for years and years and not having adequate support or education because I, one, didn't know I needed it, I thought that the stepmom role would just fit the same family dynamic roles that I had seen my whole life. Like, how could it be that much different? And I should be able to figure this out on my own. And it didn't play out that way. I really, really was struggling, deeply struggling. And it got to where I hit a breaking point at about eight years in, where it was either I was going to figure out what I needed to make this work for me and my nervous system and to create joy again in my life and peace and balance, all the things that I felt like were just unraveling at such a rapid rate, or I was going to get a divorce.

Mindy: I didn't know which one it was, and I actually ended up booking a last-minute retreat to Sedona. It was like this healing retreat for four days. And that was sort of the catalyst that started to create a shift in my life at that moment that I realized, I need to find myself again. I had lost myself in this role. I had lost myself to the chaos. And honestly, a lot of it was self-inflicted, looking back. I was hustling for my worth. I was bending over backwards, trying to create relationships and love and affection and all of the things I really thought we needed in this blended family, only to find out I was losing myself. And I was overwhelmed and incredibly anxious and dissatisfied with the life I was living. And so that's how it started. I went on my own healing journey to understand the stepmom role better, to understand my family dynamic better, and then I became really passionate about helping other stepmoms to navigate this role. Because the reality is this, and I didn't know it at the time when I was younger and a new stepmom. But the reality is that stepmoms experience twice, sometimes more than that, sometimes three times as much anxiety and depression than bio-moms. Now, again, let's be clear. I don't think they're polling single moms, but I think they're polling traditional first family bio-moms.

Mindy: But it shows you that in our society, stepmoms are really struggling and they're under-supported. And so that's where I became passionate about that.

Mikki: I love this, I love this so much, 'cause, and we were talking too about before this, one of our vice presidential candidates has been in the news. We are recording this in late July of 2024. And Mr, Vance has given us some really thought-provoking commentary on stepmoms, in particular, in relation to Kamala Harris and other politicians that don't have children. And this idea that stepmoms aren't moms, and there is a flurry of activity. And we're not going to get into politics here, but it really has opened up this conversation. And so I love that you are here having this conversation with us because from your perspective and what you've seen, like, what is it? If you could say a couple of the things that really is different and that stepmoms struggle with that maybe people don't understand.

Mindy: Yeah, well, even just going to that idea that, there's a large population of people who look at Kamala Harris and don't consider her a parent. And I think that is not shocking to me, it's disappointing. I see it every day with my clients. This is what they're battling. And a lot of it has to do with gender roles in our society right now, because women really are, in most heterosexual relationships, they are the ones who are nurturing and taking care of a lot of the logistics with children. And that's the same story for stepmoms. That narrative doesn't change just because she's a stepmom. Oftentimes, she's the one doing the heavy lifting for the kids in the family. I'd say more than 75%, 80% of the time when they're with her, and we're talking about like if we've got shared custody, things like that, where she's seeing the kids at least 50% of the time. And I'll be honest, a lot of my stepmom clients have their stepkids more than 50%. Like, they are spending a significant amount of time, if not more time, with dad and stepmom than they are with bio-mom.

Mindy: And so that leads to this question of what makes a parent? And why in our society are we so quick to discredit and dismiss the role of a stepmom? We see in society a lot, even like Hallmark, I think, did a commercial about stepdads last year and talking about how amazing it is when a stepdad steps up and shows up to games and is present. But we're not seeing that with the stepmom role. It is a completely different standard. There's a lot of...

Mikki: Ambiguity.

Mindy: Ambiguity. Thank you. For the stepmom role. And it's sort of this double-edged sword. She's damned if she does and she's damned if she doesn't. So if she shows up to the game, it's like, "Why are you here? You don't need to be here. You're not the mom. Let mom have her space." But if you don't show up, it's like, "Well, gosh, is she even invested? Does she even care?" There's a lot of this push and pull in the role, and I see that being highlighted on one of the largest stages in our nation right now where she's not even being acknowledged. And what I love, though, is bio-mom did chime in and say that she came in support of stepmom, and also Kamala's stepdaughter said the same thing. She was so, like, "Yes, she is a parent." So it's interesting.

Mikki: Yeah. It was a really beautiful thing to sort of see how it unfolded. But, as you were talking, I was really thinking about it, it's interesting because there is this like push and pull. There's two sides to it. There's the assumption that you're just now mom, you're filling the mom role. But then there's this very distinct, "Well, you're not the mom." And so. And I know from my own life, that was a really hard transition that I never saw coming. And I'm curious about sort of your experience and how you help people move through it because, you're sort of like walking two sides of the fence. I heard you say that you sort of fumbled through it for many years. I know I did the same thing without help. So how do you help people navigate that, that sort of two sides?

Mindy: Yeah, it's a very real, I guess, pressure and confusion for all of us stepmoms because nobody's really talking about what the stepmom role is or should be. And every family is unique, and they come together in different ways, and so that influences it as well. I don't think there's a blanket right or wrong for each stepmom, because some of my clients, they are full-time mom because mom has passed away, and so there is no other mother figure in their life. Now, does that mean that they completely wipe clean the existence of bio-mom? No, not at all. It's just that they fill that role day in and day out. And for the kids, oftentimes, even the kids when they're younger, that feels more comfortable for the children to say mom at school and things like that because they don't want to have to address it every single time. They want to just be normal. And so it's not that the stepmoms, I think, want to come in and they want to like challenge the position. I think we all, as stepmoms, just don't know what we're supposed to do. And so I don't think there is a right or wrong way to do this.

Mindy: Stepmoms, I think, should be considered an influential parent, is really the role that I think most of them want to exist in. They don't want to be called mom. They don't want the title of mom. They just want to be a part of the family. They want to be considered an integral part of these kids' lives because they do care for them. They do love them. They do show up to things for them. They plan birthday parties. They help them when they're sick. It's more of this loving and nurturing role that maybe in our society we haven't found a perfect title for. Because it really isn't competing. It's not on the same level as mom. It's different. Stepmoms love their kids, but they're not their mothers in every situation. In the traditional sense, if we're talking about stepfamilies who are 50/50 and go between homes, stepmom is the mother figure when they're at dad's house. And that's how I look at it. She nurtures them. She loves them. She oftentimes is doing school shopping and helping them with homework and really just there to support them through life. And that's how I think it works best. But not every family is that way. Sometimes if stepmom comes in and she's coming into the kids' lives when they're teenagers and they're getting ready to launch and they're not really wanting to onboard a new parent, they're like wanting to get rid of the parents they already have, they are not in a place where they really want to take on another parental figure.

Mindy: So, in those circumstances, she's more of like what I would call an auntie or something like that. She is there to help them, to give them advice, to be their friend, to be a support system. She's just a bonus in their life, but not necessarily doing all the things that a parent does.

Mikki: Yeah, there's so much complexity, And there's every situation is unique. So I know you talk about sort of changing the systems, needing to sort of change how you do things. And what I'm hearing is, especially when we have an expectation of what's supposed to happen or what should happen or a sort of movie in our head, you fall in love with this person who has children, and you just want that happy life. And then maybe you've got kids who are resistant, or kids who are teenagers, and I love that, they're not ready to onboard another parent. They're not. It's not their job to bring you up to speed. So there are all of these complexities. So where do you start? Understanding everything is unique, how do we help them think about changing those systems so that they can actually create one that works?

Mindy: Yeah, this is really where the complexity becomes very apparent. Let's just find a norm. Stepfamily coming together, because stepfamilies come together in all different stages in all different ways. And that's what adds to this, is each family is so unique with so many different layers of complexity. So whether mom passed away or whether it was a healthy divorce, whether the parents co-parent well, the stage and age of the children, the financial struggles, all these things really play into how we look at navigating the stepmom role. How much custody you have is another one. So when I'm working with stepmom clients, some of the biggest hurdles that they face in the beginning is, one, the expectation of what this family would look like. And that is one of the hardest aspects of this, I feel for stepmoms to conquer. Because we all come into this with our lived experience, as not only adults but children. So what did our family unit look like growing up? How did our parents handle their own marriage? What's our beliefs about divorce and blended families? That's loaded. A lot of times we have a lot of underlying beliefs that we don't even know existed until we start to pull them out. That's affecting your ability to succeed with the stepchildren and co-parent with the ex.

Mindy: Looking at all of these things, what are your beliefs about your family and what it needs to look like? What are your beliefs about the role you play and the relationships you will have? All of those things are factors in your ability to accept what I call what is. We have to look at the reality of your family. The truth of the matter, and I have done so much just combing through research, which I have to say there's not much. So we haven't really studied blended families except from the perspective of bio-mom and stepdad. We haven't studied the other side of it. And so, hopefully, there's going to be a movement to change that. But we don't know much about the family environment or the struggles from the perspective of dad's home and a stepmom because it's relatively new. Dads didn't use to get as much custody as they do now. It used to be that mom really had the majority of the custody. And so this is kind of a new scenario in our more modern culture. And so we're finding that there are challenges with this, naturally, that we really don't know how to navigate.

Mindy: And so for a stepmom, she's walking into this with limited resources, limited education. There's a cultural stigma around stepmoms, for sure. The evil stepmom is very present and alive in our culture, unfortunately. And so she walks into it blind and experiences all of that, very early on, for most of them. And then from there, has to really decide how she is going to navigate this in a way that feels aligned for her and her own beliefs and her own values. So for each stepmom, they have to decide what their value system is for their role. And a lot of times what I find is stepmoms come in, they are hustling for their worth. They are like the most incredible, "bend-over-backwards, people-pleasing" type stepmom, where they just do everything for everyone, and the become resentful and burned out pretty quickly because they can't. That's what I did. I thought that if I just poured my heart and soul into the relationships and to our family that the return would be exactly what I need and want. Just to find out that nope, that's not how it works. You can die on that battlefield and they can still have opinions about you.

Mindy: So you have to decide that you are going to figure out your values for your role. And on your own. Like your values for who you want to be as a stepmom. Do you want to be a stepmom that throws birthday parties for your stepkids? Do you want to be a stepmom that shows up to every game, or do you want to be a stepmom that shows up to 50% of the games? Or are you going to contribute to college? Are you a stepmom that is going to make photo albums for your stepkids? Like, what aligns for you? What do you feel good about? Regardless of what society is telling you, regardless of what everyone around you is telling you you need to do. And then that is your marker for success. Because if we chase the response from everyone in our lives, if that is the meter for our success, you are being dragged along, and you will never meet the mark, because people have bad days, people go through their own stuff and project it, and you'll internalize it as, "Oh, I'm not a good stepmom because they feel a certain way about me today."

Mindy: So you have to decide what that standard is for yourself, which is harder than you think, coming in, 'cause it's confusing, and you're trying to decide, who do I want to be? And there's a lot of external noise telling you that there's a certain standard for stepmoms, that honestly is unobtainable in our society. It's unobtainable. There's a lot of social media posts and things like that will say that the standard for stepmom is to love your stepkids like your own. But when we flip that, if we were to say that to stepchildren, "Well, you need to love your stepmom like your mom." People would lose their mind. They would lose their mind and be like, "No, you can't expect that." It's the same for a stepmom. She should be able to create and decide these relationships for herself. What feels organic. What feels good. And yet, society is telling stepmoms a different story.

Mikki: Yeah. And I think especially when you come into it with your own children, And there's two sets of kids with different bio-parents on either side. And I just want to name that because the complexity is real and it's steep, and it's... There is a lot. And I love that you sort of start here, which is where I start with clients, too, which is really figuring out what are your values? Because without that sort of guiding compass, you are just at the will of what everyone else thinks.

Mindy: You're being jerked everywhere.

Mikki: Yeah. Yeah. So, I love that you brought that up and I think especially with stepmoms, you're right, there's so many different thoughts that there's really so little thought at the same time. It's like, it feels like it should just be a no-brainer and yet it's so sticky and complicated and not easy to pull apart, and they're very much is that idea that you should love all the children equally. And then when you don't feel that way, the jolts that consumes you is staggering.

Mindy: Yeah, and women won't talk about it publicly because they're ridiculed. They are told they're a horrible stepmom, that they fit the evil stepmom narrative. But I'm gonna go out on a limb here. In my experience with working with hundreds of stepmoms, I have never come across a stepmom... And they're wonderful people. Some of the most incredible, giving women I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. It's rare, it's rare for a stepmom to love her stepkids like her own bio-children. And I think that is absolutely how it should be. If we look at what we're doing here, is we're making the standard for love for a stepmom... The standard has now been, you have to love them like your own, which I don't even know why that entered the conversation, because we love many people in our lives. We love our husbands, we love our wives, we love our mothers and our fathers, we love sisters, brothers, friends. Sometimes friendships are some of the deepest-rooted love we can have in our life. And why don't we, we retitle it and say, "You should love your stepkids like they're your stepkids." Why can't that be its own beautiful version of love? That's not the same. We don't have biology. We don't have attachment with our stepkids in the same form that we do with our own bio-children. That doesn't make it the bad type of love.

Mindy: And that's where I get hung up is this idea; why are we comparing it to something it's not? These kids were not birthed by us. They have a mother in the picture, who has attachment in biology, who loves her children, in most cases, loves her children dearly. We are an added bonus, and this relationship is different, but it doesn't mean it's less than, and I think in our society, we're doing stepmoms and stepchildren a huge disservice to make that the gold standard. That's not the gold standard. It's a completely different relationship, and that is okay. And when we start to debunk the idea that stepmoms have to love their stepkids as their own because that somehow became the standard, I think, that is going to change everything for stepmoms, if we could let that go. And that's what I tell my stepmoms. There is no requirement to love these kids as your own. You will develop love and bonding and attachment as you go because that's the natural progression. What happens, too, is when stepmoms come in and they feel this pressure to feel that way immediately, they shame themselves into spirals of depression and anxiety because they can't meet that standard and they think something is wrong with them. Nothing's wrong with them. Relationships take years. Love takes years to develop with these kids, and that is actually the norm. But nobody's telling stepmoms that.

Mikki: And I'm so grateful that you are talking about this and that you are shifting the narrative, because that's how things are going to change, is having conversations and resources and openness about these topics. And so, Mindy, I'm grateful that you're having this conversation because, I'll just say from my own situation, the kids were the hardest part, of really trying to blend families. And for us, it actually didn't work out. We're still together, but we don't live together, because the kids' stuff was just too much. And in my mind, we only get these kids for a short period of time, I'm not going to add one more ounce of stress than we have to. And so we actually just went back to two houses. It was like, "Oops, not a great idea."

Mindy: You know what? Let's talk about that, because I want to give you a little piece in this. I have clients that do this. And it actually works beautifully for many clients. And it makes me sad that our society also makes the gold standard of living together and co-parenting together as the best thing, or like, you've succeeded if you blend families. That's not always the truth. Sometimes blending is living in two separate homes and keeping peace for children and maintaining the health of your relationship. That can look like success, too. And I think, again, that's where the complexity comes in with these roles, is that we've got to let go of this idea that one size fits all and that's how there will be success, and that is just fundamentally not true. Opening your perspective to what can actually work for you guys is how blended families work. Because oftentimes women come in and they're like, "Okay, here's the box that I'm supposed to fit in." And they just contort and shove and try every position to get their family into this box and it doesn't work. And then they're like, "Oh, we're failures." You weren't a failure, the box wasn't a fit. Get a different box. You don't have to fit that box. Go buy a bigger box. Buy the whole block. I don't care. Whatever you need to do to make your life good, that means you're successful. Not that you just contorted into a box and you're miserable. That's not success.

Mindy: And so many stepmoms are doing that. They are contorting themselves into positions that are not, one, not sustainable. Because usually they come to me when they've done that for an x amount of time and they realize I'm miserable, I'm going to have a nervous breakdown or I'm going to get a divorce. And then we start to deconstruct that and look at, why did you even buy into that narrative? What's keeping you here? Why do you have to do life this way? There are so many ways to do life.

Mikki: Yeah, absolutely.

Mindy: And be successful.

Mikki: And I think it is having these conversations so that we can see that there are options. So much of the time, like you said, we feel like there's a box and we have to fit in that box. But really opening up your perspective to what works. And my stepkids and son were actually one of the greatest teachers for me because, when I really stood back and watched them and their behavior, they were not content with the situation the way that it was. So I had that decision to say, like, "What's my priority?" My priority is my children. And making sure that I'm showing up for them the way that I want. And that's when I had to take a real hard look at myself and realize I wasn't showing up for anybody the way that I wanted to, least of all myself. And when I got real honest about that, then things started to change, and I thought, "Well, oh, no. Now I'm going to destroy everything. Everyone's going to be unhappy." They still introduce each other as their stepbrothers. People poke fun at us all the time. Like, "What are you today? Together, not together? Married, not married?" And I'm like, "Poke away all you want." I've got three happy kids in two houses, so we're solid. And happy parents.

Mindy: Yes. Yes.

Mikki: So, but I just, I think it's important to just, like I said, continue to open up this narrative. And as much as I would love to keep you forever and ever and talk about all the things, you've dropped so many really things for people to think about. But for a stepmom that's out there who is in that situation, she's contorting herself, she is struggling. She's in that, supposed to have a happy life, but she's miserable. What do you want to say to her?

Mindy: One, that you are worthy of all of the things that you're desiring right now. Most stepmoms are questioning their worth and their value in this home. They're questioning their own self-love and their ability to have others love them. Because when you enter into a blended family, I feel like the feeling of belonging is so painful. You want to belong. We all want to belong as humans. And when you enter into a new blended family, the feeling of belonging is lost for a while. But it really is only lost because we're looking for it in others, and we have to turn that around and really... It's an opportunity to find belonging within yourself. So, all of these stressors and all of these issues you're finding in your blended family and all the insecurities and the resentment is an opportunity for growth. Always. Every time. It's about choosing yourself. It's about having your own back. It's about finding ways to set boundaries and advocate for yourself and really get in touch with what you need from life. It's not an opportunity to lose yourself. That's what many women do, is they lose themselves because they... And this is what I say all the time, it's one of the analogies that's just stuck in my head. Somebody said it to me once, and I can't forget it. Women, especially stepmoms, they have the volume turned up so loud on everyone else in their family. They're so in tune and intuitive with other people's needs and wants.

Mindy: And the volume so low on their own needs and wants and desires. And that is a recipe for disaster. We have to start to turn the volume down on everyone else. Life won't fall apart, I promise. It teaches them independence. It teaches them how to advocate for themselves. It's actually a really healthy thing to not jump in every time somebody needs something. And you turn the volume up on yourself and you start to listen. And for a lot of women, that's actually incredibly hard, they've never listened to their own needs and desires. It feels so foreign. And a lot of my clients, when we start doing that, they actually have no clue what they want. I'll ask them over and over, "What do you need? What do you want?" And they are so detached from that part of themselves. That is what we've got as stepmoms. What I would say is if anything, start to turn the volume up on your own needs and your own wants, first. Get in touch with what you want your life to feel like. What are the natural desires you have for this family? And believe in yourself that you are worth advocating for yourself. Don't just push that stuff down and pretend it's gonna go away because I promise you it does not go away. It gets louder and louder until you'll listen. And so you've got to listen while she's whispering. Advocate, advocate, advocate. That is what's creating doubt. So I love that because you did that. You said, "This isn't working, we're gonna do two different homes."

Mindy: That's advocating for what you need even though it goes against societal standards or the norm. Drop that, again, not the box that we need to fit into. This is actually how we find peace in our lives, is advocating, listening to that voice, what do you need? And then the other thing I would say is, we say all the time, and this is more for society and anybody who's listening that isn't a stepmom. There is that saying that it takes a village to raise a child. Why aren't stepmoms getting an invite to that village? Why are we excluding stepmoms? Why are we not embracing the idea that a stepmom is a part of the village? She's just here to help support raise these children. That's it. Stepmoms just want an invite to the village. That's it.

Mikki: And I really appreciate you saying that. And I know, again, from my own situation, accepting my son's stepmother into his life was a whole learning curve, and frankly, growth opportunity. But the moment that I shifted, really, because I work with clients all the time in similar situations, it's choosing how you want to view either yourself as a stepmom or if there is a stepmom in your children's life. You get to decide what you believe about that role. And that is going to decide how everything follows after that. So for me, I simply decided this is going to be one more person in my son's life to love and care for him. And when I was able to do that, then I was able to see her differently. I was able to maybe let go of some things that I may have been holding on to, but.

Mindy: Yeah. It's hard on both sides of the coin. I always say this, what has helped me the most as a stepmom is to have empathy for my stepkids' mom. And when I was able to get to that place of empathy, it shifted everything. This was not her first choice for her life. She did not get married and have kids and think, "Oh, I'm going to have a stepmom in my kids' lives, yay." Like, that was nothing her end goal, yet she ended up here. And it takes time to accept this. The mother role is so loaded, and so many women they find so much of their worth and their identity in this role. And when another woman comes in and starts to take that, air quotes, "From you," 50% of the time, it is jarring, I've never been there myself, but talking to many women, it's so incredibly jarring. It is so incredibly triggering, and it takes time to figure out how you're going to digest this new set of rules to the game. And for anyone, whether it's a bio-mom or a stepmom, we have to have empathy for both sides because we're not that different. I know it feels like we're so far apart and so different, but we really aren't that different, and if we can start to bridge the gap with empathy, I think we can open the conversation and just the understanding around each other's struggles and triggers within this role, because it's hard on both ends. It really is.

Mindy: And so we've got to come together in some form or fashion in order to make this successful, for not only the kids, but ourselves, we're also living this life. It's not just about the kids. Yes, we want to do it for the kids, but we also want to do it for ourselves.

Mikki: Absolutely. And I love that you brought that up. It really is that empathy that we're wanting to raise children that are empathetic and understanding and resilient and all of those things, and we do that by showing them. By living by example. And so I love that you brought that up. And, Mindy, you are such a beautiful, bright light, and I really applaud you for kind of poking and dismantling all of these just false narratives that are there so that we can actually get to something that is a clean foundation, a strong foundation for people to move from. And I say this all the time, but get help. You started this off, I know that my journey was years and years and years and years of struggle because I did it alone. And just, don't.

Mindy: You don't have to struggle your way through it. There are people who've paved that path, who have done the research, have already spent, like you and I, a very long time sorting this out and knowing the pitfalls and knowing where they are. It's like, for anything. Hire a mentor. You aren't meant to be educated in every area. We hire people to work on our furnace and our air conditioner. We don't expect ourselves to get on YouTube and be proficient at that. Don't expect yourself to know how to do these things. Hire a mentor and an expert that knows this inside and out and backward to help you miss those things we fell into.

Mikki: Yeah, and 'cause you can't see the forest for the trees in there. And when you have somebody, I hear from clients all the time, they're like, "Wait, I'm allowed to do that?" Yeah. Yeah. We're allowed to do a lot of things. But it's like, sometimes we need a permission slip, and so having a coach, or a mentor, or a therapist to be like, "Permission slip granted. Here you go."

Mindy: Yes. Yes. Yes. I agree 100%. Yes. It's... Sometimes you need somebody... Especially in what we both do, you need somebody that is there, that has your back, who is there, that is neutral, who doesn't have any stake in the game, who can listen to you and support you, and guide you, sometimes tell you the hard truths if you need it, but there to really be your advocate, your support system, because in these situations, oftentimes, there are alliances, and there are people who have, they're kind of torn between two parties, and they can't be 100% on your side because they have to also advocate on the other side a little bit. And it feels like you don't have anybody really there for just you. And that can be a game-changer in and of itself. Just having somebody that is just there for you, shows up for you, advocates for you, and then you can walk away and take a deep breath, and you're like, "I got this every time."

Mikki: Yeah. And that is the beauty of coaching. So I... Yeah. Well, thank you, Mindy, for coming. I'm so, so grateful. Tell people where they can find you 'cause I know they're going to want to know all the things about Mindy Kyle.

Mindy: Yeah, you can find me on all social media platforms at mindykylecoaching.com. And on TikTok specifically, there are some fake accounts, so make sure you find the one that says "official" or "only account", okay? Because that's the lovely part of being on social media. But make sure you look for the official account on TikTok specifically. But mindykylecoaching.com, you can sign up for a consult or get a look at the bio page, all the info is there.

Mikki: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for spending time with us. I hope you enjoy your summer, and I'm really looking forward to seeing how you continue to shift this narrative.

Mindy: Thank you. This has been such a pleasure, and I love the work that you're doing. So thank you for inviting me on.

Mikki: Oh, and one more thing, the legal stuff. This podcast is solely intended for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to be a substitute for any medical advice. Please consult your physician or a qualified medical professional for personalized medical advice. Thanks for listening to Co-Parenting with Confidence. If you want more information or resources from this podcast, visit coparentingwithconfidence.com. I'll see you next week.

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