Ep #118: Simplifying Your Home, Head + Heart with Emily McDermott

Mikki: Welcome to Co-Parenting with Confidence, a podcast for those courageous moms out there who wanna move past the conflict and frustration of divorce and show up as the mom they truly wanna be. My name's Mikki Gardner. I'm a Certified Life and Conscious Parenting Coach with my own personal dose of co-parenting experience. Throughout my co-parenting journey, I have learned to become confident in who I am as a woman and a mother and I'm here to help you do the same. If you're ready to learn what it takes to become a great co-parent and an amazing example to your children, well, get ready and let's dive into today's episode.

Mikki: Welcome back to the podcast. I'm excited for this conversation today because I feel like the New Year is one of those times when we all sort of are really being intentional thinking about what we want the coming year to look like. And to me a lot of that is really about simplifying, about prioritizing, figuring out what is it that you want and then figuring out how to get there. That's why I think our guest today, Emily McDermott, is a perfect person to help us really start to think about this and have this conversation with ourselves and here on the podcast today, because she is talking all about simplifying, our physical space, our landscape and our energetic space. She's gonna really talk to us about what clutter really robs us of and how we can learn to reclaim our time, our energy and our peace through the simplification process. So I'm excited for you to dive in and I want you to know who is Emily. Well, she's a wife, a mother of two energetic boys and a simplicity seeker. She's also the host of the top 1.5 globally ranked podcast Moms Overcoming Overwhelm. It is a great podcast where she helps moms declutter their homes, their hearts and their heads and I can't think of anything more aligned for this community than that conversation.

Mikki: So I'm really excited for you to learn from Emily today and I hope you enjoy this conversation. Emily, I'm so excited that you're here today. Thank you so much for making the time and to be here so I can share you with my audience.

Emily: Yeah, thanks so much for having me, Mikki, I'm really excited to chat.

Mikki: Yeah good. So I would love for you... I did the bio and all of the wonderful things about you at the beginning, but I wanted to hear from you, sort of how did you get here? Why do you love talking about this? Who are you? Give us a little bit, like the two-minute here I am.

Emily: Yeah, well, I did not go to college for stuff management, although I feel like that's a hat that many of us moms feel like we're wearing. I actually came to decluttering and minimalism when my husband and I were having trouble getting pregnant. So we were struggling with what's called unexplained infertility, which means there's nothing physically wrong with you, you just have trouble having kids. And at the time I was working full-time, taking on all of the extra responsibilities, the chronic perfectionist people-pleaser and I realized that if I wanted to make that physical and emotional space in order to have a baby, which I really felt like was what I was called to be, was to be a mom that, I needed to make that room and I was able to find out at that time, I've learned about minimalism and simplicity and decluttering and I started like many with my physical environment and then kind of moved to my calendar learning to not say yes to every single thing, to prioritize that and then moving more towards the mental clutter. 'Cause when you're going through fertility treatments, there's a lot of mental clutter, a lot of negative thoughts, and when I ended up having unexpectedly not only one child, but then two under two, had my free baby, our free baby as we like to call him, then it was the...

Emily: Oh my gosh, two under two, and the decision fatigue which was... I just felt like everyone was asking me all these questions and I had postpartum anxiety, just unable to process what was going on. So the foundation of simplifying and decluttering really helped me in that season of motherhood and now continues to help me. And now I have my podcast about decluttering overwhelmed moms homes heads and hearts and I do decluttering coaching to help with that.

Mikki: I love this, I love that this. And thank you for sharing 'cause I think a lot of us just kind of assume that things are, it's just the way things are and we don't see the connections between all of these things, so I'm excited to kind of dive in 'cause you're using some terms here that I think we wanna dive into and sort of uncover, but... So you're talking about clutter. I mean there's the obvious issue with clutter just from a space perspective, but can you talk to us about or what clutter does and what it takes away from us?

Emily: Sure. So clutter is not just extra stuff lying around your house and what people may not know is that it is actually... Or what I like to say is robbing us of certain things and it's our job, not only declutter, but reclaiming them. So I always talk about the most precious resources that we have as moms and that's our time, energy, focus and attention and our health, of course. And so I'm gonna go into a little bit of that, but definitely clutter steals our time because what takes up our space takes up our time and we don't think about that, but we have to find things which is hard, we have to maintain them, we have to clean them or clean around them, we do the stuff shuffle where you take the pile that's on the kitchen counter and you move it to the dining room table and then you move it to the closet that no one opens. And all of that takes time. And one of the studies that I like to reference found that in an uncluttered home you have 40% less housework and I have never met anyone that was like, oh, I'd like to do more housework. Everybody wants to do less, so it makes sense because it's just easier to maintain and keep your home running well if there's not clutter around. So the first thing that we're able to reclaim when we declutter is our time.

Mikki: I love that. I don't want anyone to... I'm glad we're here because my kitchen table right now is the site of all the laundry, and so I have walked by 10 times today and we're not gonna talk about how I feel...

Emily: No.

Mikki: When I walk by that but...

Emily: We won't.

Mikki: I have a feeling that's the first thing I'm doing when we hang up, so keep going.

Emily: I will. So that actually kind of leads into the second, which is our peace. So when we are looking at clutter, if you're in your kitchen and you're looking at the things on the counter, I need to sign this permission slip for my kid and I need to put this away and I need to fold the laundry, your brain is registering those as undone tasks which can kind of raise your stress levels and there was a study done in 2010 where couples were taking researchers around their home, husband and wife, and the wives that were describing their homes as cluttered or unfinished or disorganized, when they did saliva samples they had higher cortisol stress hormone levels than women that were describing their homes as comfortable or cozy. And the other interesting thing was those women that were in cluttered homes, they had higher depressed mood, more difficult time transitioning from work to home and the men did not experience the same rise in cortisol levels, which is kind of interesting. And the researchers thought, because traditionally the study was in the United States, that women are primarily the ones responsible and I've listened to your podcast, so I know your thoughts about the definition of responsible, which we can talk about when you come to my podcast.

Emily: But they're responsible for the home management and so that's why they were more affected than their husbands when it came to the clutter around them, so peace is a huge one...

Mikki: Interesting.

Emily: So there's a direct link to anxiety and stress. If you think you're self-stressing you're not crazy. It actually is.

Mikki: It actually is. Yeah. So just I wanna make a little pin in that because the majority of the listeners there's some dads out there, hey guys, I love that you listen, but the majority of us are moms here on this podcast. It's interesting because I find one of the things that I have talked about over and over and I think it kind of fits here and it triggered when you were talking about the actual stress levels of the men versus the women, men have an amazing gift of being able to compartmentalize, they can focus on one thing for an extended period of time or whatever is necessary and they really don't let anything else in, where women, our brains are wired for us to be able to be taking care of the children, cooking dinner, scanning the environment for tigers and lions and bears, oh my, and doing all of the things, right? And so, our brains are literally wired differently and I think it's really important what you just said is that even if we think it's one pile, like I'm judging myself for my pile that's happening out there, I think I'm a pretty organized person, but when it gets like this, there's a lot of judgment I have. But I think to your point, if I'm hearing you right, is that your body and your brain is registering it as undone and therefore raising the stress level...

Mikki: Raising the intensity of which you may be unconsciously still experiencing your environment. And so I think that's a really... I just wanted to kind of make that point 'cause a lot of people are like, oh, I'm just not... This is just how I am. But I think to your point is that when we're not being intentional and really mindful of how we're keeping our house, our schedule, our emotion, there is an unconscious effect on our body, our nervous system, and that is impacting your stress level and therefore your ability to be regulated with your children or not.

Emily: Yes, it has a direct impact like you said on that nervous system regulation and the other kind of related thing is focus. So when you are looking at a cluttered area, your brain has a harder time focusing and one of the studies show that it impacts your short term memory also. So there's also... When we already have so much mental clutter as it is, it's like we don't wanna add to it by the combination of the mental clutter based upon what we're having in our physical environment and then of course all the to-dos and things we're always thinking of, so...

Mikki: So talk to us just a little... I wanna finish, slow it down, 'cause I'm just thinking, what if... I've heard of mental clutter, but how would you define it for someone, or how would we know that we have mental clutter?

Emily: Yeah, I would say for mental clutter, it can be obviously like the to-dos. That's a huge one of course, but then also when it comes to negative thoughts or... There's someone called Dr. Daniel Amen, he talks about automatic negative thoughts. And so when we're looking at the things that are happening repeatedly where we have that judgment on ourselves or on our behavior, I think that those are the main ones. And when it comes to, I think the pace of our lifestyles, it's just like so much is coming in all the time that we're just not able to process it effectively and so it ends up being kind of like this loop. And also, if we don't have a system around our stuff, then the to-dos keep going around and around and around because we don't have it somewhere in a system to be able to process it. So if I have my... I'm not gonna pick on you with the laundry.

[overlapping conversation]

[laughter]

Emily: If I have paper on my kitchen counter and that's my system, then I'm not processing it, so I feel like something is always slipping through the cracks.

Emily: Like I don't remember if I signed that, I don't remember if I paid that bill. You wake up like, oh my gosh, did I remember to respond to that? That's the mental clutter because we're not having a system around the stuff that is coming in. So I would say for parents this would be the most prevalent types of mental clutter.

Mikki: Well, and when you said that it really hit home for me that one of the things about divorce is that when you're talking about those automatic negative thoughts or the sheer number of issues of things that are happening regularly, that's one of the things that feels like Groundhogs Day when you're having a difficult co-parenting relationship. It's like the person continues to do the same thing over and over and you continue to get frustrated over and over. And so to me when you were talking, that is kind of added mental clutter from divorce and co-parenting that I think a lot of us just say it just is how it is, but I think what you're saying is no, there are ways that we can sort of recognize this clutter and start to clean it up. And I would love to start to talk about that because I wanna get to sort of the nitty-gritty here for the moms to listen to, but between that and then I want you to talk about decision fatigue too that you talked about before because with co-parenting, there's parenting which is really difficult and then there's... Co-parenting is just added levels of complexities even maybe just because of the physical proximity of two homes, two separate schedules, people running things, but also again with all this mental clutter. So can you talk about the connection between that?

Emily: Definitely. So when it comes to your... We're gonna start with the stuff and then show how it impacts decision-making...

Mikki: Okay. Yeah.

Emily: As far as what you can control 'cause there's some decisions that you can't control. But when it comes to our stuff, like let's say I'm ready in the morning and I go into my closet, it's one of the first things I do, and I have 50 shirts and 100 pairs of pants and 50 pairs of shoes. It would be harder for me to make a decision on what to wear than someone that has 10 shirts and 10 pairs of pants and five pairs of shoes because the more stuff that we have the more choices we have to make among those things. And there's something called choice overload where at a certain point we like to have choice, we don't wanna go to a restaurant and they say, okay, we have hamburgers or hot dogs and you're like great, yay. [chuckle] So maybe you don't go to that place, but then you go to The Cheesecake Factory and it has a novel for your menu...

Mikki: So much.

Emily: And you have no idea how to make a decision because it's too much. So happiness rises to a certain level, but then when you get to that point where there's too much choice, then your happiness decreases because you're having decision fatigue, you have analysis paralysis.

Emily: I talk about how we go on Amazon to get our kids a pair of socks because they have holes in their socks and then we have to read all the reviews and compare and oho this one had a one-star review, but this one had a five star, and then two hours later our kids still don't have socks because we got in this rabbit hole of decision fatigue. So the less choices that we have based upon having less stuff, the less decisions we have to make among those choices. And so I know there's a lot of... I don't know, about Marie Kondo and does it spark joy? And I don't think that's necessarily a helpful question. But one question I do think is helpful is what unnecessary decisions can I remove from my life because that is going to simplify things for you, so maybe it's your clothes, what you're eating, your activities, your kids' toys, what they're wearing, what they're doing. There's a lot of areas where we can simplify those things because there are other areas where we can't. And so we need to preserve... Supposedly we make 35,000 decisions a day and so add kids and co-parenting and all this on top of it, there's probably more. So we have to preserve our decision-making energy for what actually matters and simplify the things that don't matter as much so that we can preserve that energy.

Mikki: Oh my god. I'm tired just by hearing you say that 35,000 decisions. I feel like we all just need to stop and take a nap 'cause that was exhausting. Right? But it's true and I love this idea because one thing that we talk a lot about on this podcast is being intentional, being purposeful. We can't change all the things but really focusing on what you can and I love this idea of minimizing all of the decisions, minimizing all of the choices so that you feel less stressed just day to day to day and then you have more capacity to be able to handle all of the other things and the stresses and the other co-parent that you can't control. So it really is about... I love this idea of kind of slowing down or cleaning up, so to speak, so that we have more capacity and time. So how do the... I know you're talking about how this impacts. How do we start to... If someone's like, okay, I can see what you're saying, how do we start to do that so that we can start to reduce the anxiety and the stress?

Emily: Yeah. So my podcast is for overwhelmed moms, and most of them, when they come in to my Facebook group or talk with me, they say, Emily, I know I need to declutter. I have no idea where to start. And so, my recommendation is that you start with what I like to call the low-hanging fruit, the most un-sentimental un-emotional areas, and I actually recommend you start in your car, which isn't even in your home at all. [chuckle] And the reason is it's a small contained space, most of what's in there is trash or recycling or things that need to be relocated into your home, and so we're able to make those decisions easily. Decluttering at its core is decision making. Clutter is delayed decisions. Like, you haven't made a decision on it yet. Right?

Mikki: My gosh, can you just stop and say that whole thing one more time. Clutter... Please, 'cause that was big.

[laughter]

Mikki: S2: Decluttering is at its core decision making, and clutter is delayed decisions, is just decisions you haven't made yet. [laughter]

Mikki: So good, so good.

Emily: And so let's start with where the decisions are easiest, and after you're done with your car, you can move into your bathroom, go into that medicine cabinet. You're not gonna get emotional about throwing away expired medication or the make-up, you don't even remember when you bought it and you're like, this is gross. Go into your fridge, get rid of the moldy leftovers and the random Tupperwares, and you start to gain that momentum because you're starting to, like I say, like I like to say, flexing your decision making muscles, and then you can start working into the more difficult areas, more of the... I don't recommend you start with your closet at all because at least for the moms I work with, and I think a lot of women in general, they have a lot of what I call aspirational clutter, which is what fit you two kids and 10 pounds ago, and I used to go on a date every Friday, and now I'm not. And so, your closet is filled with all of this emotional stuff that is not serving you right now, don't start there, start where it's easy, and then you can kind of gain the momentum from there.

Mikki: Oh, I love that. And so let's talk about... So, that sounds like a really doable way to start to chip away that. What about mental clutter?

Emily: Yeah. So, there's a couple of different ways to approach that. I think when we were talking about the automatic negative thoughts, and the point being that we can't always control our thoughts, the thoughts are just coming, and I've heard of it as... And I know you have your life coaching background, so I'm sure you have a lot of knowledge and expertise I don't have in this. But, I like to think of it as like cars on the road, and those are your thoughts and you can decide whether you get into the car or not, and go along with that thought, but we want to be able to kind of catch those thoughts in the moment. And I guess I'll speak more to the... Two things, I guess, the negative thoughts or those beliefs that we have, we're going to just stop and say, and this is actually from Byron Katie, her work, is it true? Can I know for sure that it's true? Who would I be without the thought? And of course, I'm forgetting the fourth one.

Mikki: The turnaround statement, right? What would it be?

Emily: Yeah. And I find that's really helpful because especially when we have the... I'm a bad mom because... Is that actually true? Can you prove that that's true? And then you're able to kind of flip that. But I think the other thing for the kind of mental clutter of the to-dos is really being able to make your decision once about something. So, for example, what am I having for dinner? I don't know. Where is this? Is anything defrosted? I'm not sure. And you have all this running around in your head. If you're able to decide, want that Taco Tuesday or whatever, you're always going to be just having this one thing, or for my kids I actually have a dry erase sleeve with a menu with their favorites, 'cause I'm sick of them saying like, I don't know what I wanna eat, and just being able to simplify those decisions, then you're able to reduce a lot of that mental clutter of not knowing what to expect in that certain area, and then also simplifying your stuff. We don't have to be like, well, what am I wearing today? Or what am I eating? You're able to just kind of make some of those decisions in advance, so those would be kind of the two recommendations I have for mental clutter.

Mikki: I love this. And as you were talking, one of the things that I hear from moms so often is, I think one of the hardest days of the week or whatever your situation is, is transition day. My son's 13 and transition days are still challenging at times, because that is one thing that kids of divorce have to learn to become, which is little business travelers. They are constantly on the road moving, and it is against everything that we would want for them, but they are just obligated to move back and forth, unfortunately, in most situations. And I know that it's really hard for a lot of moms to navigate their kids' emotions on transition day, because they're so excited to see them or they're anxious even thinking about the drama that's gonna come with the kids when they come back. Maybe they're gonna be exhausted, maybe they won't have eaten, maybe they're disheveled and a mess. Like whatever, right? And so, I really appreciate sort of you bringing this part up because it is a little more work on your end to simplify, to be proactive, to be intentional, to make these decisions ahead of time, but I think what you're saying is that when we're not...

Mikki: Right, and we're getting overwhelmed with all of the decisions, or what am I gonna do, it raises our stress level. When our stress level is raised, we have less ability to be able to navigate in a more regulated, calm way, and that's when we really start to get triggered. We get overwhelmed, we end up taking it out on our kids, even though we really, really don't mean to. And one of the things I really see is like these transition days, or just trying to get to school in the morning, or trying to make sure that everything is out the door. Right? And then the last decision we can set ourselves up for is what I'm hearing you saying, the lower your stress level is, which offers you more calm and confident, navigate whatever anyone else is feeling.

Emily: Yeah, I think that sometimes people think routines are boring, but what I like to tell people is chaos is still a routine if you're doing it every day. Like if your life every day is chaos, then that's your routine. And so children, obviously children are at various ages when they're going through these transitions, but the predictability of knowing what to expect and having that security of knowing that because that consistency is there, then you're able to provide that, so that even though you can't control what happens when that transition is happening, you know, they're leaving your home, you're able to say, okay, well, I can't wait until you're back on Tuesday, 'cause we're gonna have our tacos and it's gonna be fun, and you're able to provide that. I think, I don't have the situation personally, but that grounding and just like, the kids know what to expect. And the other thing is, especially with young kids, they're so influenced by their environment, because they're learning everything by their senses. And so, if you have everything covered in stuff and you think, wow, they do the dump-and-go with their toys and they grab their toys and dump it and move on to the next thing and dump it and dump it...

Emily: I need to get them more toys 'cause they're obviously bored. They're not bored, they're overwhelmed, they're having stimulus overwhelm by the amount of stuff.

Mikki: Right.

Emily: So, by simplifying their environment, then you're able to provide that comfort and predictability that they need, I would assume, because of the transitions that they're going through.

Mikki: Yeah, and I think just one last pin, just so that we're really marking this point, is that I agree with you, people think routine is boring. It's the key to freedom. Right? When we want to feel free and have that ability to be especially emotionally free, it comes with our ability to be consistent and in routine, because that's what creates that. And so I think it's so important for us to understand that co-parenting is... Can be chaotic in and of itself, just by the sheer number of things going on, and I believe the best thing that we can do, is choose to learn how to ground ourselves with intention, and like you were talking about, with the freedom from the mental clutter, the energy sucks the physical clutter, and it doesn't... And you might say, well, it's totally chaotic at the other co-parent's house, and I can just hear the moms saying that and I get it, but we can't control that part, but we can make sure that when your kids are with you, you are a safe, grounded, consistent presence, and this is part of how you do that, is you start to look at your physical clutter, your mental clutter, and you start to make these choices for yourself, right?

Mikki: And if we want to be that amazing calm co-parent, we have to reverse engineer how to get there. We can't just think we're gonna land there one moment. Right? And I think what you're talking about is really making the little decisions all the time that are leading you in the direction that you wanna go.

Emily: Yeah, definitely just kind of like, we want our homes to be a haven. We want it to be a place that we can rest, that we can be protected from the chaos that's going on in the outside world. But a lot of times I hear from women that they come home from work and they sit in their car for five extra minutes, 'cause they don't wanna go into their homes because their homes are the place of chaos and unrest. And so, we have to do what we can, not only for our kids, but also for ourselves to be able to really have that be a peaceful place and removing the extra stuff and simplifying our routines is... They're two great ways to start doing that.

Mikki: Yeah, so I love these, I love all the tips you've given us so far. Is there anything else that you feel like you would want... What else do you want us to know? Like if we download it. What else do we need to know?

Emily: Sure, I'll do kind of one more tactical thing.

Mikki: Love it.

Emily: Which would be my, like I call it the three Cs of decluttering and they're short. The first is checking your consumption. So, you can be decluttering and decluttering, decluttering, but if you're getting Amazon packages coming in every day, then you have too much probably going into your home. So, just being, again, intentional, more intentional with our purchases. The second is something you touched on earlier, which is capacity. A lot of times we look at the, what we should own and what our calendar should look like by how many hours are in our day or how many square feet are in our home. But it should be based more about what we're able to actually realistically and healthily manage instead of what we could just put in our home. So, if I'm living in a 5000-square-foot home and you're in a 1000-square-foot home, it doesn't mean that you and I as women can manage anything different necessarily, but I might fill my home because I can. So, just thinking about your capacity, which changes in different seasons, of your life and your parenting. And then the third C is the container concept, which is really leading back to capacity, to provide an artificial boundary around something, and then we're making decisions within the boundary. A bookshelf is a good example.

Emily: So if we take things off of the bookshelf, we're gonna start with... I played this game with my five and seven-year-olds. Love, like, maybe no. So, we start with the loves, we put the things we love on their first, then we see if there's room for the likes, and then if there's no more room in the designated space, then we're going to donate the rest or we can use another form of delayed decision-making, which is this out-of sight, out of mind bin where you put something aside, put a sticky note on there for 30, 60 or 90 days, just make sure you put a reminder on your phone, and then if you don't miss anything that you haven't had out, then try to have the courage to let it go to. So, container concept is an artificial boundary, just because we have a lot of space, but that doesn't mean we have to fill the space. It should be based upon our capacity to manage that particular category of stuff.

Mikki: Okay. So can you apply those three things to your schedule? You did the bookshelf, right? But I love the bookshelf idea, but also what could that look like with your schedule?

Emily: Yeah, so as far as the consumption aspect, but just recognizing what you would want ideally your schedule to be and before you're letting things onto your calendar, being able to answer questions similarly that you would with your stuff. Do I need this activity? Maybe, is it life-giving or life draining? Can I delegate it? Like some of these kind of questions. And then for the capacity, again, this goes back to what are we realistically able to manage? If my kid wants to do three different extracurricular activities, what can I manage as a parent, what can he manage as a second grader? And then third, having the container is really maybe doing that time blocking, starting with the things that are the non-negotiables, that would be the loves, right, the non-negotiable things, then moving into the things that are not as important and seeing how they fit, but being able to keep those boundaries within your schedule that may be less than the total number of hours that you could devote to working, taking the kids to all the activities, that sort of thing, so you're putting an artificial time block or boundary around that category of time.

Emily: That's an excellent question, by the way. No one's ever asked me that. So, that was fun.

Mikki: Good, good. Well, yeah, 'cause I was just thinking about that. And one thing that I hear over, I... Sure you do too. Right? I don't have enough time. There is, and you're gonna get other... Not you, Emily, but listeners I know are gonna get mad at me for saying this, you have more than enough time when you're prioritizing your time based on what matters to you. Right? It doesn't mean you get to do everything you want all the time, but when we're prioritizing what matters, when we're putting ourselves first on our calendar, again, putting in those non-negotiables, putting in that time to declutter, putting in the time to even transition from work into your home or... I was just talking to a dad the other day, and transition days are so chaotic and I said, okay, but what are you doing the day before? And he said, why? Well, because are you filled up? Right? When you know the kids are coming home, what are you doing the day before, right? Or when they leave, he's like, well, I watch six hours of Netflix. How did you feel? Well, I felt free 'cause I could just watch Netflix with no one talking to me.

Mikki: But then the next day he was traveling for work, it's like, we really have to start to prioritize our time because there's enough time when we're really being intentional, and I think taking out the clutter of like you're talking about. So, I love this conversation, and I think there's such a need, especially with co-parenting, because I feel like sometimes when we're co-parenting, it's like things are just too difficult, and then we are just stuck in this survival mode versus really stepping in and deciding, how can I control this? How can I experience this? Right? It may be chaotic, there may be difficulty, there may be conflict, but how are you setting yourself up to be the fullest, best version of you to be able to handle it? And I think that's what you're saying, when you're suffocating underneath all of the stuff, the negative thinking, the mental clutter, you don't have so much to give.

Emily: Right, yeah. Your capacity is much less than if you were able to release yourself from that. I've actually heard of the term stuffocation. So, yes, stuffocation, yes. We're being stuffocated by our stuff and... And I think as mom's and as parents in general, just being able to find that freedom because... And I've heard you say this on your podcast that not only are we worth it, but our kids are worth it, our kids are worth having a parent that's at their full capacity to be able to care and to show them and to model for them to be able to prioritize what matters most. Like we are always modeling, so it's like, what are we modeling when it comes to relationships with our stuff, relationships with our time? 'Cause our kids are, lucky for us as parents, our kids are always learning from us, right?

Emily: Always watching. [laughter] Yes, I mean I will admit I did a... I was so overwhelmed yesterday by all of the things and did not slow down, right, to take a breath. And my son and I just... It was like that thing we always do, he's 13, so he's in that period where he's trying to assert himself and trying to get his voice and do all the things, and I was just overwhelmed. And looking back and I had to apologize this morning on the way to school. I was short-tempered and I lost my temper because I was overwhelmed. You were still acting like a jerk, let's just be totally clear, and I said that, but my reaction was more about how I wasn't taking care of myself and all of the emotional things that have been going on lately, and that wasn't fair. And it was a real wake-up call this morning to get up a little earlier, get myself together, so that we could at least get out the door with some sense of loving kindness. [laughter] So, I understand it's littles too, but the big kids, they're bigger kids, bigger problems. And we have to have the capacity to be there for them, so I love this conversation you're bringing. How can people get more of you, Emily? Tell them where to find you.

Emily: Sure. Wherever you're listening to this podcast, you can find me at the Mom's Overcoming Overwhelm podcast, and I have a Facebook group where we do biweekly decluttering challenges, 15 minutes a day or less, five days a week, and then I do free coaching or giveaway gift cards for coffee. [laughter] So, it's fun. That's just always in the show notes of my podcast, and that's probably the best place to find me.

Mikki: Okay, well, I will put everything in the show notes so that they can find you. Emily, thank you so much for being here, I'm really grateful, and I think this is going to be a continued conversation, 'cause I think we can dive in even more...

Emily: Yes, yes. Thank you again so much for having me.

Mikki: Oh, and one more thing, the legal stuff. This podcast is solely intended for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to be a substitute for any medical advice. Please consult your physician or a qualified medical professional for personalized medical advice. Thanks for listening to Co-parenting with Confidence. If you want more information or resources from this podcast, visit co-parentingwithconfidence.com. I'll see you next week.