Ep #30: Interview with Daisy Freestone

Mikki: I'm Mikki Gardner, and this is the Co-parenting with Confidence podcast, episode number 30, An Interview with Daisy Freestone. Welcome to Co-parenting with Confidence, a podcast for those courageous moms out there who want to move past the conflict and frustration of divorce and show up as the mom they truly want to be. My name is Mikki Gardner, I'm a certified life and conscious parenting coach with my own personal dose of co-parenting experience. Throughout my co-parenting journey, I have learned to become confident in who I am as a woman and a mother, and I'm here to help you do the same. If you're ready to learn what it takes to become a great co-parent and an amazing example to your children, well get ready and let's dive into today's episode. Welcome friend, thank you for joining me back here today. In the month of May, I wanted to celebrate all things women. You know, it's Mother's Day, but I just wanted to really take a focus, talk to and celebrate strong women, and I feel like this conversation today is gonna be starting us off with a bang because I have the one and the only Daisy Freestone on the show today. Mikki: And we are in for a real treat. Daisy is the author of A Kid's Guide to Divorce and Life After. Here's the thing, Daisy is 11 years old, and this is her first book. She is a powerhouse, and I know you are going to love this conversation. I took so many nuggets away from it and from reading her book. She offers us such a beautiful perspective of divorce from a kid's point of view. It's a really valuable conversation that looks at the challenges and the change and the blending families, and she offers strategies to help kids really work through it and thrive. So without further ado, let's jump into the conversation with Daisy Freestone. So welcome back to the Co-parenting with Confidence podcast. I am beyond excited today. We have the amazing Daisy Freestone here. For those of you who have not met this girl, you are never gonna be the same because Daisy is 11, she is an author and her new book just came out, and I thought this was the perfect guest for us to have on this podcast, so welcome, Daisy, and thank you for coming. How are you? Daisy: I'm good, how are you? Mikki: I'm good, I'm so excited that you're here. So tell me, what is the name of your book? Daisy: It is A Kid's Guide to Divorce and Life After It. Mikki: Okay, and so tell me, what made you write this book? Daisy: Well, I don't want to go into a huge story or anything, but when I was in fourth grade, so last year, we were doing a unit in writing that was instructional writing, like a how-to, sort of... And I did a few of them that was just like, how to play this game, or how to make this food, or just stuff like that. And we were doing another one and I was trying to think of an idea and I was like, I want to do something that's maybe more close to my heart, something that I really, really understand, that I'm really passionate about, rather than just something like... Mikki: Like something trivial... Daisy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was like, what if I write a little guide on how to get through divorce? And so it was just a little thing we did in writing, but we spent a few weeks editing and revising our favorite one, and I picked that one. And then I brought it home and I did illustrations too. And I brought it home, and my mom read it she was like, "This is amazing." And she was like, "Daisy, we need to publish this." We need to turn this into a real book, and I was like, "Heck, yeah, let's do it." Mikki: I love it. Daisy: So, at this point, my mom had already written and published her own book... Mikki: Yes. Daisy: A few years earlier, so she already knew some people that we could work with to get it published, and I was like, "Yes, let's do it. Let's do it." Mikki: I love that. Daisy: Yeah, and I really just, I don't know, I'm glad that I did it, and it feels really good to me that I'm gonna be helping all these kids and maybe even parents. Mikki: Absolutely, and that's why I wanted to have you here 'cause it really is... What you wrote is so truthful and honest and clear. And I really, really enjoyed reading it. I'm curious, 'cause you just said it sort of started out just as an assignment at school and then maybe took on a little bit of a life of its own, but what is the message that you really wanted to convey? What did you want people to know, from your point of view? Daisy: I think I did wanna help people, and it just... The message that I was trying to convey is that you're not alone in this... It's not just you, there are kids all over, everywhere, in a divorce situation, aren't alone, and there's lots of other people who are in the same situation, and I just... Yeah, because I feel like a lot of kids feel like they're alone in the situation because maybe there's no one who they think that's in their group of friends or at school or in your neighborhood, you might not think that there's anyone in that situation. Mikki: Sure. Daisy: But the chances are there's actually probably a lot of people close to you that you might be surprised at how many of them are in a divorce situation. Mikki: Yeah, absolutely. Daisy: So... Yeah. Mikki: So, one of the things that I wanted to ask you about, because you know, I'll just be honest, I didn't come from a divorced family. My parents are still together. We celebrated their 52nd wedding anniversary not long ago. Daisy: Oh, that's awesome. Mikki: Yeah, amazing. And so, it's not something that I grew up with, not something that I understand, and that's been a really hard thing for me as a mom to navigate for my son, because I just don't understand what it feels like. And so, exactly what you're saying, he feels all alone. And so, I'm curious from your point of view, if you're willing to share, if you could sort of be a voice for those kids, 'cause I think there's a lot of moms in my audience that are in the same boat I am or just don't know how to really understand what their kids are going through. And that's why I love for moms to read this book because you tell it so clearly, but... I'm curious, what were some of the toughest parts or what was the toughest part about divorce for you? Daisy: So I do wanna say... Well, I'm kinda confused, so are you asking for me to speak to other kids or my experience or... Mikki: Either one. Whichever you feel comfortable with. Daisy: Okay. I feel like I would love to be able to speak for all the kids, and I can speak for a lot of them, but I really think everyone's experience is really different. So I can't specifically give advice on how to help, but I can try and I can share my experience. Mikki: Yeah. Daisy: So, I feel like the hardest part for me was kind of like... Well, I think it was just a lot for me was changed. In this situation, I've discovered that I don't like change and it's hard for me to deal with it. I'm getting a lot better with it, but I think just going back and forth, like transitions from Mom's house to Dad's house. And my dad moved to a different state, and just not having him around as much was a hard change. Again, like I said, transitioning back and forth. Some of my siblings have moved in with my dad, so then all of a sudden they're not there anymore. Blending families, just a lot of the changes in general were really hard for me. I think that is a thing that a lot of people struggle with. But yeah. Mikki: I know my son does. Every Sunday and every Wednesday, it's not his favorite, those are not his favorite days for exactly that reason. It's change and it's hard. So how did you figure out ways to make that easier to navigate? Daisy: I don't know, I feel like I just kind of had to learn what to do as I went along. Yeah, I just kind of had to figure out what to do. I think it was helpful to talk to my family about it and get some of my emotions out, maybe not even just my family, but my friends, just people who are close to me that I trust to talk to them about it. And I just had to go with it as I went along. And I did have books that helped me about divorce, and so those were helpful, but I think it was also figuring it out on my own, but I did... My mom got me into a counselor fairly recently... Maybe not fairly recently. I don't know, it's been longer than I thought, but that really helped, and I think a lot of kids are embarrassed to get that kind of help or they're mad, they feel like they don't need it. But I think it really helped me. Daisy: I'm still doing that currently, and I think it might help a lot of other kids. And she actually helped me come up with some routines I could do for change, like transition routines. We thought about what helps me. Like when I first get back from my dad's house, I'm kind of upset. And when I first get there, it's confusing. And so, I'll have a routine. When I get home from my dad's house, I'll go out to dinner with my mom, or we'll spend extra time together because it helps me to spend time with her. And also certain things that we'll do, like we'll go to Starbucks and we'll just get a pink drink, just because I love them, and it's just a fun thing to do, and it's kind of like a splurge and it helps cheer me up. And so, I do different transition routines, which can help, and... Yeah. Mikki: I love that. That is such a wise advice. And I think even, you know, it sounds like you have a pretty wide change, right, going to see your dad in another state. But even for kids that it's like... You know, the back and forth every week. Even having that routine, just so that they can have the comfort of knowing something to do to help themselves feel better. That's so, so smart. So I'm a little curious, too, 'cause us moms, we always wanna know exactly the right thing to say, and I'm not putting you on the spot here, of course, but I'm curious from your perspective, were there things that were helpful that people said or things that were not helpful that people said when you were navigating the divorce? Daisy: I feel like, for me, I know my love language is words of affirmation. Or if there's something that someone says and it's really positive for me, it sticks out and it helps me so much. And if there's something that's not as much, it's just kind of not as much. But I feel like one of the things that... And it does help for some people. For some people, they just really trust in this and it helps, but sometimes it was kind of irritating for me when people are like, "It's gonna be fine." It doesn't always help because it's just like... You don't feel like it's gonna be fine. Mikki: Yeah. Daisy: And it's like, I don't really feel that way. Mikki: Yeah. Daisy: So that can be upsetting, but it can also be really helpful if they're like, "Hey, it's gonna be okay." I think it just really depends how you're feeling at the time that it's said and the way that they convey that message to you. Mikki: Yeah. Daisy: I think something that really helped for me hear was just like, "I'm here with you, and we're gonna figure this out together," because it just helps me to know that there's someone on my side, and it's just really nice to know that they're there. For some people like, stuff is really helpful, some stuff is not, it's really differs for different people, but I feel like that's what was the most helpful for me and what was not so helpful. Mikki: Yeah, I love that you said that and putting that with the answer that you gave just before that, sort of having the space and the opportunity to talk about how you're feeling, to create those routines and just have somebody there listening, it sounds like. Yeah, it's... A lot of times it's scary for moms to open the door to the conversation. And dads, I shouldn't eliminate the dads here. Daisy: And what you're saying, just having someone listening... Sometimes it helps a lot, even if they just don't say anything, even if they're just there and they just listen. And they're just listening to you and you know that they're listening. Yeah. I think it also helps, for moms or dads, it can be kind of difficult because I know they're dealing with a lot of stuff with the divorce, and so maybe they're worried that they won't be able to give their kids what they need, but I think it helps to ask their kids like, "What do you need? What can I do for you in this situation?" And it might be difficult, but it helps the kids to know that someone cares and that they want to help you. Mikki: Oh, I love that. That's such a good... Such a good reminder, too. That brings me back to... I wanted to ask you, 'cause there were a couple of things that you said that were just so, really hit me as such beautiful truths that I hope that we can all convey to our children, but one of them you wrote. And this is a quote from the book, "But it's important to remember that whatever the cause of your parents’ divorce may be it's not," in all caps, "Your fault. It never has been, and it never will be." And it was just such a beautiful thing, Daisy, that you wrote that. And I think this kind of... It reminded me of this conversation that we're having right now is that it's not the kid's fault. And making sure that we can support you as parents and supporting the kids to understand that, but I love that you wrote that. Why was it important for you to really make sure that they know that? Daisy: So I've had an experience with divorce from when I was really young. I feel like I haven't personally blamed myself for my parents' divorce, which I'm really glad, but I can understand how hard the emotions are during divorce already, without thinking that you're to blame for it and I can imagine how hurtful and damaging that would be, and I just... It's really, really important for kids to know that it's not their fault, just because... I don't know. Mikki: Yeah, well, it's a normal feeling that they might take it that way, right? Daisy: Yeah. Mikki: And they see people fighting. Daisy: It's really normal. It's something that a lot of kids go through, and they have a lot of similar thoughts about it, but I think it's really important for them to know that it's not their fault. That their parents had their own reasons for it. Mikki: Absolutely. Another really amazing thing you said, one of the other beautiful truths that I recognized right there was when you said, and I'll quote it again, "Although your parents may not love each other anymore, it doesn't mean that they don't still love you." Is this a similar message that you just wanted to make sure you told to everybody out there? Daisy: Yes, because I have never... I felt like, not that they don't love me anymore, though that is what I was talking about here, but sometimes just because parents are busy or they live far away, and it's just kind of hard to connect sometimes, I've felt like I haven't been prioritized or I'm not important to my parents or my parent at certain times, because they're busy. And it doesn't mean that I'm not a priority to them or that they don't love me anymore, which I felt like was important to tell kids... Mikki: Yeah. Daisy: Because it can feel like it, but it's really not what's going on, so I needed kids to know that so that they're not... Because it can also make them question themself like, "Well, they just like, why don't they love me anymore?" They think that they don't love them anymore, that they're not important to them, and they're like, "Well, I must have messed up, or I must not be good enough for them." But it's not true. So I needed the kids to know that because I [0:17:18.5] ____ that. Mikki: Yeah, I love how honest and open you are to be so brave and courageous to talk about this. If you had some tips, which I'm sure you do, on kids to deal with these kinds of feelings, 'cause these are big feelings. I mean, adults have trouble dealing with these big feelings, so what are the tips that you have for kids on how they can navigate these feelings that we're talking about? Daisy: So, like I said, you should really talk to someone who's close to you that you trust. Get your emotions out. And it can seem embarrassing, but I promise you will feel so much better after. And also, like I said, it can feel kind of embarrassing to get a counselor or a support group or that kind of help, but that can really help. And you can also talk to your counselor or whoever is helping you, and you can figure out together, like I said, with the routines, different ways that help them to deal with their emotions, For me, I have some strategies that I've set with my counselor for where I have really hard emotions, and it helps me to kind of breathe, it helps me to listen to music, again, to talk to someone. I do square breathing, which is... I don't... The normal deep breaths, I feel don't help me as much, so I do square breathing. Mikki: As what square breath... What is that, can you tell us about that? Daisy: It's like you trace a square on paper or just with your finger in the air, and as you go... So there's four sides, one side, breath in, and then go down the other side and hold it down the other side, breathe out and then... Wait. No sorry. Mikki: No, sorry. No, that's okay. So. Daisy: Is it real for one side and then you hold your breath for two sides and you breathe out. Mikki: Oh, okay. Daisy: And you breathe in. And that just is more helpful to me, and you just keep doing the square with your finger, and that's more helpful for me just because I don't know, but I think it helps to have personalized routines like that. Mikki: Yeah. I love that. Daisy: With whoever is helping you. Also, another thing that can be helpful is if you're too embarrassed to talk to someone that's perfectly normal and that's okay. You should talk to someone because it would probably help, but if you don't want to or it feels uncomfortable, I would highly suggest doing journaling or any form of writing. You can write a song if you want. You can do poetry, that really helps me. Or you can just keep a diary, anything to get out your thoughts. You can even draw, like anything to get out your thoughts on paper, if you don't wanna get them out verbally. Mikki: I love that. These are great life coaching type, Daisy. I love this, I use a lot of these with my clients and talk a lot about them here on the podcast, so. I'm always curious because you mentioned it earlier, but there's the transition, there's going back and forth, but then there's new people in your life. So how have you handled the blending of the families? What do you think about sort of how to navigate that when it first comes at you? Daisy: So, it can be a lot. It's definitely a lot. And there's a lot of new personalities. Some people that come into your life aren't gonna be your favorite. For example, me, with my step-siblings, they probably don't like me 'cause I'm very stubborn. But I mean, at least I know what I want. Anyway. [chuckle] But I think one of the things that helps when you're first getting to know then it can be awkward. You don't have to be super chatting with them, or if you don't want to, you can just kind of slowly work into getting to know them, but if you're like, "Wow, I don't like this person," or you're too nervous to really get to know them, or you're just not sure about them, just try to focus on... And I know I said this in my book, so I won't give too much away, but just try to focus on at least one thing that you like about them. Mikki: That's a good idea. Daisy: Just one good thing. And then you can use that to, I don't know, just get to know them. And if you keep that good thing about them in mind maybe you won't have... You won't be thinking all these negative things about them. And it's sometimes really irritating to have all these new siblings and all this new stuff going on, but it can be really fun. So yeah, I think also it's difficult sometimes when there's new religions or cultures that you're being brought into. And it can be very different, it can be very new, and like I said, a lot of people struggle with change. And so if you, say, there's a new food that you've never tried before that they're eating, and you don't really think that you would like it or if you just feel uncomfortable, like going to church with them. Maybe you don't go to church, or you go to a different church or... And they want you to come or to eat the food or whatever, you can say no. It's okay to say no, but you do need to be polite about it. You can't be like, "No way, your food is stinky." You have to be like, "No, thank you." Daisy: Or just be kind of polite about it. I don't know, maybe just say, maybe not today, maybe another time. Or if they ask you to go to church with them or whatever, just trying to be polite if you don't... If there's something that you don't want to, I don't know. Mikki: I think that such wise advice too, because it goes back to what you were saying earlier, is just being willing to talk about it, being willing to be open and sort of honest in a polite, clear way. So that's great. Daisy: And maybe if you're really uncomfortable doing that, you can talk to your biological parent, maybe they can help you out with that. Another thing, sometimes it can just be really hard for kids and there's a lot of emotions there, and it can be really difficult for parents because they're trying to like, they're worried, they're like, what if the kids don't all get along? And sometimes kids, we're not as patient, not as good as controlling our emotions as adults are most of the time. So sometimes we can kind of freak out or we can be a little bit rude towards our new family without meaning to. And we can make it pretty hard and a pretty crappy experience for our parents without meaning to, and so yeah, it's annoying, but I think parents just need to... We're pretty annoying, but it helps just for parents to keep in mind like this is hard for them, and it might be hard for the parents too. They might say it's hard for them, it's hard for me. And just try to be patient with your kids. It's hard for them. And they might come across as really rude or they might be super annoying or super stubborn, but they're not really trying to. Daisy: There's just a lot of emotions going on. So just try to be patient with them. Mikki: I love that answer. I was actually just about to ask you if there was a message that you could send to mom or dads out there, what would it be. And that was just a great one that you just gave. Daisy: Just try to be patient with them. And again, like I said earlier, asking them what they need can really help. And maybe even just if they're talking to you about their feelings, give them support, but maybe even say, "I've been having trouble with this," if you feel comfortable sharing it with your children. And if that's something that you want them to know, if you think it would help them. Make sure that you know... Also try, it can be really hard because there's a lot going on, parents have a lot to deal with, but try to still make sure that you spend as much time as possible with your children because like I said earlier, kids do need to know that their parents are busy. And it doesn't mean that they don't love them anymore, but they just have stuff to do. But I think it's also really important that parents are still trying as hard as possible to let their children know that they're there and to spend time with them. Mikki: I love that. Daisy: So yeah. Mikki: And what would be your advice, because I know that a lot of the moms will ask me, when they don't have their kids, when they're not with them, do phone calls help? Do messages, letters, carrier pigeon? What would... You probably don't know what carrier pigeon is, but what is helpful to know in those settings when you're at the other parent’s house? Daisy: So I think, like I said, it is very different for different kids. For me, I think it really helps to still have contact with them. Mikki: Okay. Daisy: Yeah. I think they're definitely gonna wanna spend time with their other family. Mikki: Yeah, of course. Daisy: So yeah, they're probably not gonna want a message 24/7. Mikki: Oh no. Yeah. Daisy: But it's important to stay in touch with them. And also it might even just be kind of fun to try and do a little special something, like me and my mom, we're mailing letters together 'cause I'm with my dad for six weeks in the summer, so it's like a month and a half, and we would like mail letters to each other. Mikki: Oh, that's fun. Daisy: And I was doing a letter mailing thing with my step-sister, who lives with my dad in a different state, so we were doing that together, and that's different. Like we're still in different... Mikki: But I love that idea. Daisy: But it's still fun to just do something to stay in touch and... Yeah. Mikki: Just create connection. I love that. Well, wonderful, so I won't keep you 'cause I'm sure you have homework and after school things and all this, but what's next for you? You are 11. You're an amazing author. What is next on your list? Daisy: I don't know. I think that's the beauty of it. I'm just gonna figure it out as I go. I've got big dreams. Mikki: I can tell. Daisy: This is gonna create a lot of opportunities for me, I think, because just starting at such an early age. It doesn't feel early to me, I'm like, "Dang, I'm old. Middle school next year." But most people would call it an early age, 'cause it's pretty young to write a book. Mikki: It is. Daisy: So it's gonna create a lot of opportunities. I just have to figure out where I wanna take it. But yeah, I'm just gonna kind of figure it out as I go along. Like I said, in middle school next year, so there's that. Slightly anxious, but excited. I actually did want to write another book, a fiction book. I'm not sure if that's still going to happen because I had lost my draft of it. But I wanna still do that if it's possible. Like I said, I have big dreams. I love fashion and hair styling and make up all that stuff, so I honestly wanna be a fashion designer and start my own clothing line as I get older, when I get older. Mikki: Oh, that sounds amazing. Daisy: And maybe even do hair and makeup. I don't know, I just, I also wanna do hair styling. I also wanted to be a model. I had a little plan. I'm not sure if I'm still gonna do this 'cause it's kind of a lot, so I wanted to start doing fashion designing. And with some of the money I got for that, I could buy supplies and start doing make-up and then maybe get into modeling at some point. And after I had all the money from all that, I was planning to open my own hair salon. Mikki: I love it. Daisy: Like when I was a little bit older and I do that. I don't know, I just... Mikki: I love your plan. Daisy: I don't know, there's a lot of stuff I wanna do, and I'm just gonna see how it plays out. Mikki: There you go. That's the beauty of being 11. You get to do all the things. Daisy: I also love singing and dancing like a maniac. So I got a little bit of stage fright, but it's getting better. And next year for middle school, I picked my elective to be theater. So very dramatic. I think this is gonna work out. So I'm excited for that. And we were, me and my mom, we're thinking of doing like going to a local theater and doing a little production and... Mikki: Oh my gosh. Well let me know. I will get to it. Daisy: So I don't know, there's a lot of stuff I wanna do, but I'm just gonna... Mikki: Well, one thing I know to be true is that I think you have definitely a lot of amazing things in your future, and podcasting might be one of them, 'cause I have a feeling my audience will want you to be here instead of me next week, but they'll be stuck with me again. So I know everyone is gonna wanna get their hands on this. So Daisy, tell us where can we get the book? Daisy: Okay, so it's on Amazon. So you can go to daisyfreestone.com and there will be a link there to go to Amazon and get it. Or you could just go straight through Amazon, so either way. Whatever's convenient. Mikki: Thank you, Daisy, so much for your time, for writing this book. I cannot wait for it to come out. I'm getting copies for each of my kids. And I'm just so excited to support you and celebrate and shout from the rooftops the amazing things you're doing. So thank you for being so brave and courageous. Daisy: And thank you so much for inviting me here. It's always great to talk about my book and I'm really excited. And it's just great to do this, great to be here today. So thank you. Mikki: Well... Oh, you are most welcome. Thank you. Okay, did you love that as much as I did? I mean, really, I just cannot get enough of her. I adore her. And I love how honest and vulnerable and truthful she was. The things that I really took away from this were that change is hard. It's hard for us at navigating divorce and it's hard for our kids. Make sure that we're getting help. They might not know to ask for it, but finding them someone that they can trust to talk to is so important. She really reminded me that talking and feeling the feelings is so important, so don't be afraid to ask questions, don't be afraid to let your kids talk. You don't have to have the answers, you don't even have to say anything back, but just letting them know that you're there, and that you're willing to hear them, and letting them feel their feelings. To be open, honest and kind. And most of all, to remind them that it is not their fault. They might feel that way, they might have seen a lot of conflict or frustration or sadness, but to remind them each and every day that they are loved by both parents and that is not their fault. I'd love to hear what you took away from this conversation. Please tag me on Instagram or DM me and let me know what was valuable for you. And please buy this book for your kids. Having another kid tell them their story can be a real benefit to share from that perspective and let's support this young budding author by buying her book. Mikki: Thanks so much for spending time with me today. I'll see you next week. And in the meantime, take really good care of you. Thanks for listening to Co-parenting with Confidence. If you want more information or resources from this podcast, visit co-parentingwithconfidence.com. I'll see you next week.