Ep #8: The Truth about Infidelity with Andrea Giles

I’m Mikki Gardner, and this is the Co-Parenting with Confidence podcast, episode number eight, An Interview with Andrea Giles. Welcome to Co-Parenting with Confidence, a podcast for those courageous moms out there who want to move past the conflict and frustration of divorce and show up as the mom they truly want to be. My name’s Mikki Gardner. I’m a Certified Life and Conscious Parenting Coach, with my own personal dose of co-parenting experience. Throughout my co-parenting journey, I have learned to become confident in who I am as a woman and a mother, and I’m here to help you do the same. If you’re ready to learn what it takes to become a great co-parent and an amazing example to your children, well, get ready and let’s dive into today’s episode. Hi, friends. I am so excited to be here with you today and have such a special treat. My dear friend Andrea Giles is going to be here to share her wisdom, her expertise, and just so much goodness. Andrea is an extraordinary woman: a life coach, a podcast host, a wife, a mom to 11—yes, you heard me right. Six biological and five bonus kids and a grandma to two. She’s just incredible. Andrea’s a certified life coach and is trained to help women sort out the confusion, the grief, the fear, the doubt, and the frustration that comes along with infidelity when it happens in a marriage. She has a really unique perspective, though, on infidelity that I know that many of you will benefit from hearing. So, without any further ado, let’s dive into this conversation. Mikki Gardner: Welcome to the Co-Parenting with Confidence podcast. I am so beyond excited about today because one of my dear friends and amazing coaches is here, the amazing Andrea Giles. So, welcome. Thank you. Andrea Giles: Thanks so much. Mikki: Andrea’s one of my most favorite people, and you will hear it in my voice because I just adore her. She is a coach. She does individual, group coaching, and she is the host of the Heal from Infidelity podcast, which, if you have not listened, you need to immediately—well, right after this—listen to that. Because she is extraordinary and deals with infidelity. And that’s specifically—Andrea and I have talked about it—why I wanted her to come on because she is truly an expert in this area and talks about it like nobody else does. And I wanted to share that with you here today. So, I’m going to turn it over to Andrea for a second. Let’s hear about you and how you got here, and just whatever you’d like to share with us, I would love to know. Andrea: All right. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. It’s an honor to be on your amazing podcast. Mikki: My pleasure. Andrea: Yes. Thank you. So, okay. How did I get here? So, like Mikki said, I went through my own crisis several years ago. Everything kind of hit the fan. It’s been eight years this year since I made the decision to end my marriage and did the co-parenting thing. I did not have coaching. I did not have coaching. Let’s just say it would have been a very helpful thing to have through all of that. And ultimately, my story is that after seven months of the divorce being final, my first husband was being reckless and got into an accident and was killed. And he died. And I suddenly became a full-time parent all the time to six children. And then fast forward, I married a widower. And, you know, it’s interesting. Mikki and I actually recently had this conversation about how, even though we live under the same roof… Mikki: Mhm. Andrea: …We co-parent 11 children together. Like, I have my six. He has his five. We have raised our children very differently. I mean, many things the same, but a lot different. And so, learning how to co-parent, right? Mikki: Yeah. Andrea: So, it might look a little different than it did before, but these issues definitely are things that we both deal with all the time. Mikki: Yep. Andrea: And then I became a coach. It’s been… I think I’m wrapping up year three of being a coach, and have my own practice, and help women work through infidelity. Mikki: Awesome. Andrea: Help navigate that. Mikki: Wonderful. Well, you know, I think—I’m sure you guys caught that, but Andrea is the mom of six kids. Biological children. Her now-husband has five, so they have 11. I just… I have one. So, I say to her all the time, I’m like, “I don’t even understand how you do the double-digits.” But extraordinary. But I think you brought up a really valid point, and we did talk about it recently. Co-parenting certainly does—when you hear it, you tend to think, when you’re parenting with two separate houses or after divorce. But co-parenting, I think, is really co-parenting with anyone that you maybe don’t exactly share the same ideas, values, discipline ideas... So, same house, different house, five houses, whatever. Co-parenting is really learning how to parent from a way that feels good for you, that also is sort of understanding and recognizing what’s happening with the other person as well. Andrea: Yep. For sure. Mikki: So, I appreciate you bringing that up. But the reason that I wanted to have Andrea on today, just besides the fact that I love spending time with her and it’s a great excuse, but you coach on infidelity. And I believe that you have a very unique perspective on sort of healing from infidelity, what happens with infidelity. And I would love it if you would just sort of share what you think some of the really big struggles are that, you know, anyone—but we’re specifically talking to moms—so, what they deal with after infidelity in a marriage. Andrea: Yep. Okay. Thank you. So, I think that some of the bigger issues that I see—this is almost across the board; almost everybody that I talk to—your trust has been broken. Your trust has been broken. You thought things were one way, and in an instant, you find out that they aren’t. Mikki: Mhm. Andrea: And it’s often this quick awareness that changes everything. It just, in an instant, everything changes. And with that, with parenting, it can often knock our legs right out from under us in regard to anything that we thought we knew. Mikki: Mhm. Andrea: And the biggest breach of trust that is the most heartbreaking to me as a coach is with ourselves. Mikki: Mm. Andrea: We start to question ourselves and say, “How did I not know this was going on right in front of my face? How did I not know?” And then we start to wonder what else we don’t know. Mikki: Mhm. Andrea: And we feel devalued often. We often feel small. We often feel shaky, at best. Trying to navigate what to do. All of those things. And then we have these children to be around and try to be solid for. Mikki: Right. Andrea: And so, some of the bigger struggles that I see around infidelity with children are trying to remain strong, trying to be emotionally strong for your children, trying to hold it together, when inside, it feels anything but that. Right? Mikki: Absolutely. Andrea: So, kind of this feeling of like, “I’m faking it. I’m faking it.” Mikki: Mhm. Andrea: Another issue I see sometimes is wanting to tell the kids what’s going on, and then dealing with some of the backlash of that—some of the hard things that come with that. And so, I think the biggest thing, though, is just when our own trust in ourself has been shaken, and when we are feeling not 100%, it can be hard to give to our kids. It can be hard to be there for them—to be what they need in that moment. So, that’s probably the biggest struggle that I see among my clients. Mikki: Okay. And I couldn’t agree with you more. I mean, I love that you always take that perspective of, really the trust that has been broken is with ourselves. Andrea: Mhm. Mikki: Right? And I think so few people actually talk about that part of it. It’s always, you know, all of the attention is put on sort of the person who did the deed. Andrea: Yeah. Mikki: And what we need to deal with is what’s left over for us. Right? Andrea: Yep. Mikki: And then, like you said, it builds in all of this distrust. “What didn’t I see? What might not I see in the future? What am I missing now?” It’s like this giant snowball. Andrea: Mhm. Yep. Mikki: So, how do you help your clients—you know, what strategies worked for you, and how do you help your clients sort of melt that snowball, so to speak? Andrea: Yeah. Yeah. So, I think out the gate, our minds can get awfully noisy. Right? Mikki: Mhm. Andrea: When we’re going through hard things and we’re second-guessing and we’re just kind of questioning everything. And our minds can be a really hard place to live. Right? Like, “Is there an off switch? Could I please just turn it off?” Right? And some of the things that I use with my clients are some of the same things that you do, Mikki, in helping them to learn the skill of quieting their mind. Learning how to bring it down. Learning how to find safety and refuge in their bodies, which then helps to quiet their mind. But another huge piece to this is, particularly with infidelity, so many of my clients have this—it’s like an urge to go looking for more information, or with that second-guessing of themselves, they want to talk to another person about it. Ask another person’s opinion. Challenge their own opinion. Like, they’ll make a decision about something and then five minutes later are negotiating with their decision. Right? Mikki: Right. Yes. Andrea: And so, one of the skills that I practice with my clients is learning how to set boundaries with themselves. And this is something different than we hear. We hear about boundaries. We hear about, yeah, setting boundaries with other people. But when we’re healing from this breach of trust and this trust broken within ourselves, boundaries in our own mind can be really, really powerful. An example of that is like, let’s say there’s some issue that you’re trying to resolve, and you’ve already made a decision from a really clear place. You’ve made a decision about how you’re going to move forward. In learning how to set boundaries with your mind, it’s like, “Okay, we already discussed this.” When your brain’s like, “Well, did we look at this angle? What about this angle? What about this over here? Did you ask that person? Are you sure? Do you know what you’re doing?” Mikki: Mhm. Andrea: And with that boundary, instead of taking the bait and jumping right back into the confusion and the discontent in your mind, it’s setting—reminding yourself, “We’ve already discussed this. This is what we’re doing. Move forward.” And knowing what those thoughts are that tend to suck you in. Mikki: Mm. Mhm. Andrea: Like, being onto yourself. Like, “Oh. I know when my brain goes here, this is generally where it takes me.” Mikki: Okay. Andrea: “And I’m saying no. I’m drawing a line.” Mikki: Yeah. And so, I’m curious because I just—I have it echoing in my head from a client earlier today that said, “Well, you know, when I’m standing here and I’m listening to you, it sounds like, ‘Okay, I can do that.’” Right? Andrea: Got it. Mikki: And then we’re in the moment and we… Right? It’s out the window. Andrea: Yeah. Mikki: So, what do you think is one way for people to start actually—so, they set that boundary. They recognize, “That’s the thought that always ends up kind of in the gutter.” Andrea: Mhm. Mikki: So, how do you help your clients sort of be able to start to recognize it sooner so that they can actually start to build that muscle… Andrea: Yeah. Mikki: …Of setting that boundary and holding it? Andrea: Yep. So, one of the things that I do with my clients is we do work around getting crystal clear. Identifying exactly what thoughts take them where. So, I love to use analogies. Okay? So, I think of like, “When I hop on this train, I might think it’s going to take me somewhere different, and it never does. Ever.” Mikki: Mm. Andrea: Like, it takes me to the same destination every single time. And we always have a choice. We can hop on the train and then we can choose to shift. We can choose to get off at a different place. But backing it up, it’s like, when we can look at the thoughts that do not help us to move forward… The thoughts that keep us either stagnant or set us back. Mikki: Mhm. Andrea: And really identifying, for each individual—they’re going to be different for each person. Mikki: Absolutely. Andrea: Because we all come into these situations with a different set of, you know, life. Different set of troubles and trials and experience. And so, the way that our brain views things—the way that our brain has interpreted the actions of somebody else—is going to look different than the person next to you. Mikki: Yeah. Andrea: And so, I do work with my clients about really getting clear and honest with themselves about the results that come with particular thought processes. Mikki: Mhm. Andrea: When they hop on those thoughts—that thought train—every single time, it’s going to take them to the same place. Mikki: Yeah. Andrea: And it’s kind of getting to a place in our mind where we have to play hardball with ourself a little bit, where we have to be firm and say, “I’m not going there today.” Mikki: Yeah. Andrea: “I know where this goes. I’m choosing not to go there.” Mikki: Yeah. Andrea: So, that’s one way. Another thing around that, though, is building any emotional tolerance to the discomfort of not hopping on that train. Mikki: Mm. Absolutely. Andrea: Right? Mikki: Yeah. Andrea: Because our brains know it so well. There’s a comfort in it. There’s this like, “Well, I should be able to.” Right? Go ahead, what were you going to say? Mikki: As you were talking before, one that came up that I hear a lot is, “Well, I have to respond,” when you get the nasty message. Andrea: Yes. Mikki: Or you get the accusatory text message or whatever it is. And yes, it’s about understanding what the thoughts are. And sometimes, though, it happens so quickly, we’re not even aware that we had a thought. So, sometimes, it’s seeing the behaviors, right? Andrea: Yep. Mikki: And to your point about the train, every time you make a gut response or just react and respond to that text, I’m guessing you end up at the same bad destination, feeling awful… Andrea: Yeah. Mikki: …And wishing you had chosen differently. And so, just for all of you listening, sometimes we aren’t aware of our thoughts as much until we get clear, like Andrea said. But it could be noticing, “When I do this thing, this one behavior, I end up a place I don’t like.” And so, maybe just starting there to recognize… Andrea: Yep. Mikki: …You got to back it up. And to your point, it might feel good for a second… Andrea: Yep. Mikki: …To retaliate and to say—respond and tell them what a jerk you think they are. Andrea: Yeah. Mikki: But 20 minutes later… Right? Andrea: Yeah. Mikki: An hour later… Two days later… Andrea: Yeah. Mikki: What’s the ramification of that? So, I love that you brought that up and sort of tolerating the discomfort. Andrea: Yep. Yeah, sometimes it looks like getting on the train and you’re just going to sit there before the train takes off. Mikki: Mm. Andrea: Like, you’re just hanging out on the car. Sitting there. Like, it hasn’t left yet. It hasn’t left the station. Mikki: Mhm. Andrea: You’re just like, “Hmm. I’m just going to chill here for a little bit. I’m just going to hang out here.” And even that, it’s pushing this pause. It’s giving a little pause to the space between the circumstance coming at you like the nasty text or whatever and that instant, impulsive, “It feels so urgent,” right? “I must respond immediately.” Right? Mikki: Yes. Andrea: And it’s just growing your tolerance to that space of waiting, of pausing, of just letting yourself come down emotionally. Just settle down really, because you’re feeling so agitated or whatever it is that you’re feeling that you must respond to immediately. And it does feel urgent. Right? Mikki: It does. Absolutely. Andrea: Yeah. Mikki: And I love sort of that you just tied that back to the beginning. It’s like, it’s hard when we’re in this place of crisis and this place of trauma and high emotion to be able to parent our children from that perspective. Andrea: Yep. Mikki: And sometimes we need to parent ourselves… Andrea: Yes. Mikki: …In that same manner. Just kind of arms around yourself and just sit for a second. Just calm it down. Just like you would a little kid who’s really upset that the milk spilled on the ground and the Oreo’s gone. It’s like, same kind of idea. Just being willing to be with yourself and give yourself that space to choose. Andrea: Yep. Exactly. Exactly. The more we grow in that regard in giving ourself that space, the better able we are to give it to our children—to give it to other people. Mikki: Absolutely. Andrea: And if our children are having times where they’re feeling high emotion—things like that—if we have trained our brain to take that pause… Mikki: Mhm. Andrea: …To not necessarily believe everything that our brain is telling us, how better-equipped are we to help our children with the same? Because, especially as parents, “Oh, we just want to fix it.” Right? Mikki: Yeah. Andrea: “We just want to make it better.” And if we can develop and increase our capacity to our children’s discomfort, that’s where we’re teaching them some life skills, right? Mikki: Oh, I love that. Absolutely. A hundred percent. So, this leads us to a question that I did want to ask you, and you touched on it a tiny, tiny bit at the beginning, but how do you speak to your children about marriage and divorce, especially around infidelity? Andrea: Yep. That’s a question I get a lot. And you know what? It’s not a one-size-fits-all. Mikki: Sure. Andrea: And the reason I say that is because not one child is the same. Mikki: Mhm. Andrea: And so, going back to my own situation, it wasn’t even like an age thing. It wasn’t like, “Well, you’re this old, and so you are old enough to handle whatever.” Right? Mikki: Mhm. Andrea: It was more like, I wanted to honor my children as people. Right? Yes, they’re children, but also honoring them. And so, I had times where I would have my daughter, who at the time was 11, come plop on my bed and ask me really tough questions. Mikki: Mm. Andrea: Like, “Oh… ’Kay. I got to give myself a minute.” And there were times where I answered her, where I just honored her as a person who wanted to know, and thought, “Is this serving her? Is this serving her?” And one thing to think about here is like, “Is there any kind of agenda here behind me wanting her to know this?” Because I have seen sometimes with clients where they almost feel vindicated in telling their kids, and then the kids are mad at dad, or whatever. Right? They get mad… Mikki: Right. Andrea: And it can feel temporarily like vindication, right? Mikki: Mhm. Andrea: Like, “Yeah. They’re taking sides.” But ultimately, is that how we want to show up? Ultimately, is that in the best interest, and who is it serving? Right? Mikki: Yeah. Andrea: Who is that for? Who is it for? And so, in the case of my daughter, when she would ask me these tough questions, with her, in particular— because I know her. Because I know… You know, she’s 18. She came out an old soul. Mikki: Yeah. Andrea: Just, she knows things. She’s a wise soul. And so, I answered her. I answered her questions. But it came from a place of honesty. It came from a place of, what is best for her—for her to be able to make sense of all of the changes in her life right now? To this day, there are things that she does not know. Mikki: Mhm. Andrea: And a question that I keep in my mind and that I think could be useful here is, “Is it relevant? Is it relevant?” Mikki: Yeah. Andrea: Like, “Does this little piece matter? Does this piece of the story matter? Does this piece of the story help make sense of whatever the question is or the confusion or things like that? Or is this coming from me? Is this my thing?” Mikki: Right. Andrea: You know, wanting to prove a point, or “Look at what your dad did,” or things like that. And so, I think that in the moment, that’s a quick question to check in with yourself. Like, “Is this relevant to the discussion we’re having? Does it need to be said?” Mikki: Absolutely. I love that question. And it helps. And I think you—you know, just to reflect back, if I’m understanding you correctly, it’s about discernment. Andrea: Yes. One hundred percent. Mikki: Right? Andrea: Yes. Mikki: And knowing your children, knowing what’s in their best interest, knowing what’s relevant, as you said. Andrea: Yep. Mikki: And is it outside an agenda for ourselves? Andrea: Mhm. Mikki: And I think going back a step, being able to take that space. You don’t have to answer every question that comes your way. Andrea: Nope. Mikki: “We need to talk about this later” is a very valid response. Or, you know, “We’ll talk about this some other time.” You can buy yourself a moment… Andrea: Yeah. Mikki: …If you need that time to decide what is the right choice. Andrea: Mhm. Mikki: And I think, to your point, just being able to turn inward for a minute and check in. Andrea: Yeah. Mikki: You know, “Is this for me or is this for them?” Andrea: Mhm. Mikki: Because our kids go through enough. In the best of circumstances with divorce, it’s traumatic. Andrea: Yeah. Mikki: And so, trying to protect them but, like you said, honor them when it’s needed. Andrea: Yeah. Mikki: So, I love that response. So, thank you. Andrea: You’re welcome. Mikki: Well, I don’t want to keep you all day, although I would love to because I could talk to you forever. So, I would be remiss if I didn’t ask this question, since it is a confidence podcast: how do you define “confidence?” Andrea: That’s such a good question. Mikki: I’m creative. Andrea: So, Mikki asked me this in an email before this call for me to think about it, and I have been thinking about, personally, how do I define it? And to me, what “confidence” means is resiliency. Mikki: Mm. Andrea: Being able to bounce back. It means being willing to grow. It means being willing to be uncomfortable and knowing that you’re being uncomfortable on purpose for your own growth, and that it’s not going to sink you. That you’re capable of discomfort. And to me, a huge piece of confidence is showing up in situations that scare you. Like, showing up in conversations that are hard. Showing up with boundaries that feel really uncomfortable. And having the confidence in yourself that you’re not going to shrink—that you can stand your ground and that you’re worthy of standing your ground. Mikki: I love that. That’s a beautiful answer. Thank you so much. Andrea: You bet. Mikki: Well, I do want everyone to find you, because everyone needs to know Andrea, in my mind. So, how do people find you? Andrea: Okay, so, my website is just AndreaGiles.com. I’ve got all my podcast information there, ways to work with me, things like that. Social media: Instagram is just @andrea.giles.coaching. Mikki: Okay. Andrea: And I put things in there. My podcast, like Mikki said, is Heal from Infidelity, just with my name. And, yeah, I think that’s about it. Mikki: Okay. Well, all of those things—definitely check it out because she puts so much amazing content and valuable information out there, and I’m just so grateful for all you’re doing for women who go through this. And it’s helping families become stronger afterwards. Andrea: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And right back at you. It’s so important. It’s so important. Mikki: Well, I really appreciate your time today. Everybody, check her out. And I will see you next time. Andrea: All right. Thank you. Mikki: Thank you, Andrea. Didn’t you just love Andrea in that conversation? I loved it so much, and I want to share a few of my takeaways with you. One: after infidelity and any betrayal in a marriage, the biggest breach of trust we have is with ourselves. We feel devalued. We feel small, shaky, and we doubt ourselves. Two: when our mind gets noisy with all the doubt and all the fear, it can be a really scary place to be. What we need to do is learn the skill to quiet our mind and find refuge in our body. Three: with infidelity, we get the urge to get more info. Ask for more advice. Negotiate our decisions. What we really need to do is learn to set boundaries with ourselves. That is practicing the skill of making clear decisions and then holding it, without going into confusion or second-guessing it. Doing the work to be aware and being onto yourself to get clear about, what are your thoughts? And when you have those thoughts, where do they take you? This is all part of building an emotional tolerance of discomfort. And Andrea says it really requires a pause to emotionally regulate before we respond to anything. Such wise advice. She also reminded us that we always have a choice to shift our thinking. When we’re deciding what to share, maybe with our children or others, the first question to ask ourselves is, “Is it relevant? Does it need to be said?” Such a good question. And then the last takeaway is that, according to Andrea, confidence is resiliency. Being willing to grow, to be uncomfortable, and showing up for you and believing in your worth. I love that so much. So, that’s our show for today. My hope is that it’s given you some hope and some ideas to move forward towards a place of healing. If you enjoyed this conversation, I would be so grateful if you would share it. Please take a screenshot and share it on Instagram. Tag me and Andrea. We’ll both share that post with tons of love as well. And I’d love to hear what’s resonating for you. Just drop a comment here or DM me on Instagram. I’d love to hear what’s going on—what your thoughts are about this podcast. If you want to hear about any of the free workshops that I host or ways that you can work with me, please just go to www.MikkiGardner.com to sign up for my newsletter. I’ll see you next week, and in the meantime, take good care of you. And tons of love, my friends. Thanks for listening to Co-Parenting with Confidence. If you want more information or resources from this podcast, visit CoParentingwithConfidence.com. I’ll see you next week.