Ep #81: Financial Empowerment – A Conversation with Stacy Francis

[music] Mikki: Welcome to Co-Parenting with Confidence, a podcast for those courageous moms out there who wanna move past the conflict and frustration of divorce and show up as the mom they truly wanna be. My name's Mikki Gardner. I'm a certified life and conscious parenting coach with my own personal dose of co-parenting experience. Throughout my co-parenting journey, I have learned to become confident in who I am as a woman and a mother, and I'm here to help you do the same. If you're ready to learn what it takes to become a great co-parent and an amazing example to your children, well, get ready, and let's dive into today's episode. [music] Mikki: Welcome back to the podcast. Today I have a really special guest that I wanted to share with you, and I just found out that April is financial empowerment month, so this is perfect. Today we're gonna be talking with Stacy Francis. Stacy is a certified financial planner, certified divorce financial analyst and certified estate and trust specialist. She has over 20 years of experience in the financial industry. She is also the proud founder of a non-profit, Savvy Ladies and host to the Financially Ever After podcast. Stacy is such a resource and wealth of information when it comes to finances. And this conversation that I had with her was so vulnerable and honest and tangible in ways that you can move forward being more financially literate, more aware and more empowered today. And the great thing about Stacy is she really started this on a mission to support women. Women who felt unseen, women who were trapped in financial situations, and she'll talk about her story in here, but while she does, I want you to listen today and take away what is meant for you. Mikki: And what do I mean by that? We are always being directed by our internal guiding system, our inner GPS of sorts. It's our intuition. It is always at work and it is always talking to us. It's whether or not we choose to listen. So as you hear Stacy talk about why she started doing what she does, the wonderful women that she works with, I want you to be open and honest with yourself about what message is here for you. And if there is a message, how are you going to act on it today? Because the one thing that I took away from this conversation is that we have to act. We can't continue to just wish away and hope that things are gonna get better, especially during separation and divorce. We are making decisions during that time that will impact the rest of our lives and the rest of our children's lives, so to do that with as much awareness and consciousness and openness and love is vital. Mikki: And so even if you're post-divorce, even if you made decisions that maybe you regret, there are still ways to start today to empower yourself and to move forward from a place of education and taking alignment towards what you want in your life, towards the dreams that you have. It's not too late to start today. So all of the links are gonna be in the show notes of how you can reach out to Stacy because there is so many ways to reach out to her and to gain more of her wisdom. So it doesn't matter if you're a very high-net-worth individual or maybe not as high a net worth individual. Whatever you are, she has ways to support you. And if it's not Stacy, there are other resources, but what I want you to walk away today with is that you can step out of financial insecurity and into financial awareness, and it will benefit you long-term, and your kiddos. So without further ado, let's take a listen. Welcome to the podcast, Stacy. I'm super excited to have you here. Stacy: It's great to be here, Mikki, and I'm so excited to talk about this topic. Mikki: Yeah. You know what, I've been thinking about it a lot, and it's... This money and finances is one of those things we just don't wanna talk about, and I know that I didn't grow up in a home where necessarily there was a lot of discussion around finances. I know now looking back there was a lot of other stuff, right? It's like all the things that aren't said, and so then we bring on divorce and a change in lifestyle and uncertainty, and it is one of the things that I find women struggle with so much. So I'm so excited to have you here. For my audience, I just love Stacy's approach, her story. And I'd love kinda just start there, Stacy, if you don't mind and tell us why you're here doing all the amazing work that you're doing. Stacy: Well, thank you for asking that, Mikki, and actually, it's very good timing. I just was at the Nasdaq and I was the person that hit the closing bell on Friday... Mikki: Wow. Stacy: Which I have to tell you was a once in a lifetime experience, and we were celebrating 20 years of Savvy Ladies. And I founded Savvy Ladies when I was 26, and it is a non-profit focused on financial education and financial empowerment for women, and it's my love letter to my grandmother who was in a very toxic marriage, and she shared with me before she passed away. She felt financially trapped because I saw what was going on. There was actually physical abuse in additional to emotional abuse and, Mikki, she was one of the kindest, nicest people you could ever meet, and she was a really strong woman. And so it just didn't make sense to me of why do you not leave. While understanding about abuse and studying abuse, you realize there's a lot more factors. And for her, she was in a financially abusive relationship as well. She unfortunately did pass away because of the physical abuse, and it changed my entire trajectory of my life. It's why I went into this field. Stacy: To be honest, I went into this field and became a financial advisor from a place of fear and not wanting to have what happened to her happen to me. But what I will tell you also, how it empowered me and really kicked me in the butt was to do something so that other women don't find themself in that situation. No woman deserves to feel trapped in a relationship or a job that she doesn't feel safe in or a part of any type of situation where she feels cornered or boxed in because of finances or money. And so I know she's looking down. I know that she's so proud. I felt her. Actually, I wore a dress, her dress at the Nasdaq for the closing bell. The dress is probably 50 years old. It's beautiful. And so she was there with me, and I know that she would be very proud. Yeah, and that's how I got into this field, and quite frankly, why I'm just so passionate about this work and why financial literacy, particularly for women, is so, so important. Mikki: Well, thank you for... Just a blessing. I literally have tears in my eyes hearing that story, and I love that she was with you last Friday. And something struck me that you said, and I'm curious if you can dive into this 'cause I've never heard two people... Anyone put the two words together, financial abuse. And so I'm curious how you define that. Stacy: So financial abuse, there's a good reason you haven't heard of that. It's the abuse that no one speaks about, and it actually is very present. In 95% of all situations where there is physical abuse, there's also financial abuse. And financial abuse is another way to have the perpetrator control their victim or survivor, however you wanna call that person. And there are many ways that it shows up, everything from the very mild, "Honey, I see you're stressed. I'll take care of the finances. I'll sort out all the bills." That then slowly turns into excluding that person from a role within the finances, and on purpose not sharing information about accounts, not sharing information about spending or income. It can also show up in the form of putting someone on a budget that's so restrictive that it allows the perpetrator to continue to be in control, and the victim to have to crawl up to them to ask for more money for just basic everyday expenses. Stacy: Again, it's another way of excluding that person. And then there are other ways that it will show up. Not allowing them to have a career. If they do have a career, sabotaging their career. We've worked with women whose husbands stole the keys to the car and made them walk to work, miles in snow, in rain. Again, it shows up in many different forms, and it's much more prevalent than many people realize, and because it's not as well-known as a type of abuse, many of the women who are survivors and living through this don't realize that this is abuse, they don't, and have been gas-lighted into believing, "I'm not good with money", or "I spend too much", or "I'm not smart enough." All these things that can just snowball the rationale in our mind to make it very difficult to leave. Mikki: Absolutely. Stacy: And quite frankly, to recognize what's really going on. Mikki: Yeah, I'm so grateful that you shed light on that because I think those limiting beliefs that you just mentioned, all of those thoughts, "I'm not good with money, I don't know how to spend money, I spend too much", and then coupled with maybe not being the primary breadwinner or a breadwinner, right, and having it sort of rationed out to you eats away at your self-confidence, your self-esteem, and really makes it challenging to even consider another option or perspective when you find yourself in a marriage that isn't working. Stacy: And Mikki, there's also two myths that I run into that I really wanna myth-bust right here. Mikki: Perfect. Stacy: The first one is that this happens to bread-winning women as well. And we worked with one client where her paycheck went to the joint account, and then he immediately transferred it to a separate account. She had no access. And you might think, how does this happen? Mikki: Sure. Stacy: Well, again, the gaslighting of, "You're not responsible enough with money, Susan. So I'm gonna do it, and I'll give you a budget that you need to live on." That was one case. Another case, this situation, it was actually a 30-year marriage, and this woman finally decided, "I am divorcing him." She came to light with some professional help, and she thought that they were poverty-stricken. Mikki, he had sucked away $5 million. Mikki: Oh, wow. Stacy: And she had raised her children having to get shoes at Kmart. Nothing wrong with shoes from Kmart or Target. That's what I did growing up. But the amount of money that was coming into the household, he was putting her on a budget where she didn't even know if she had enough money when she got to the checkout counter for groceries. That's number one. So bread-winning women, but also in that second situation, it can happen to also high-net-worth folks like that case right there. There's no one typical marriage or relationship where this shows up. It can show up across many different types of relationships. Mikki: Yeah. I think it's so true, right? We never know what's going on and to your point, this is one of the things that people just don't talk about. And women, I think in general, and you can speak to this more, but really we've been told not to learn about it, right? Just to take the back seat, let the other person lead, or women just aren't good with money, or we haven't been typically the breadwinners. So these things are all shifting and changing, but there's still those mindsets, right? And so it's important that we start to talk about them because I think, especially with the women in my audience, most of whom are divorced or are considering it, contemplating it, in a process of, this is one of the things that's the scariest. And we feel like we just don't know even where to start. Stacy: Yeah. So I have some really important things to think about for those women who are contemplating the divorce process or who are going through. And then eventually, I wanna talk about what do you do after. Mikki: Okay. Perfect. Stacy: So something I didn't speak about, so I started a beautiful wealth management firm called Francis Financial. We manage about half a billion dollars, and we do heavy divorce financial planning, helping people through divorce and afterwards. I actually started it the year after I started Savvy Ladies to pay for Savvy Ladies, because I quickly realized with the non-profit, you can only do as an amount of good work as you have, it's quite frankly an amount of money. So I realized, okay, Stacy, you're gonna have to be successful and you're gonna have to be so successful that you can pay for two businesses. One for a for-profit, but then to be able to donate all this money. So fast-forward, it's beautiful. And Francis Financial, we have 17 different planners. Actually 15 of them are women, which is really phenomenal... Mikki: Fantastic. Stacy: In our field when only 23% of financial advisors are women. We work with a lot of women who come to us who are thinking about divorce, and one of the biggest questions they have is, "Will I be okay financially?" And so what I really recommend is to lean into the finances as much as you possibly can. Get as much information as you can about spending, about income coming into the household as well as your assets and liabilities. If there is financial abuse, Mikki, it's not so easy to do that. And so what you can do is start to see what mail is coming into the house, from which financial institutions. What credit cards do you have? Stacy: If you have a credit card at JPMorgan Chase from Chase, most likely there's a savings and a checking account, and maybe even a brokerage account there. So it will help you to be able to get a better idea of where those assets are. The other thing you can do is you can get your tax return, and now is the perfect time, because we are coming up to the tax deadline. You need to sign the tax return and do sign the tax return and do look at it. But if you go to the capital gains and losses section in the tax return, it lists all the accounts that are creating dividends, interest and capital gains. And often, it even has the account name, the institution, and sometimes CPAs are so good that they'll put the account number or the last four digits. Mikki: Yeah. Great. Stacy: Even though that doesn't tell you how much money there is in that account, it is a gold mine where you can start to track. "Okay, I know we have an account at Fidelity. I know we have an account from this place." And on the first page of the tax return, you can see if there's been any distributions from retirement plans. It's a little section right there on the first page of the tax return, and if it's empty, you don't have to worry about that, but if it's full, it means that money is coming out of a retirement plan. And guess what? There's a retirement plan. It might be an IRA, it might be a 401 [K], but guess what? You've got it. Mikki: Yeah. Stacy: So it's really about getting educated so that if you do move forward, you have more information and your divorce is going to be significantly less expensive because with that information, your lawyer can subpoena that financial institution, which is very easy to do, and that institution has to give all the information. But if you don't know the institutions, you don't know who to subpoena, right? So that's a really important thing, is again, the more information you have, we all know that knowledge is power, and when you are going up against an abuser or a narcissist or someone who has created a power imbalance in the marriage, you need to go in with as much information as possible. Mikki: I love that you broke that down to such a... In a tangible, easy step to take, right? Even just the tax returns, because I know I've worked with clients who are really in the situation of not knowing. They don't know what they don't know. But you have that sort of gut intuition that something is off. And so as I've worked with clients, and I think what you're saying is it's just start to build whatever amount of information you can. Stacy: Exactly. Mikki: Just start to chunk away at it and figure out what's there because knowledge is power. And so really stepping up to just start to take a look is so important. So, awesome. Stacy: Yeah, and the other thing we talked about are things to think about through the process. When you are going through the process, what's nice is that a lot of those holes that you don't have information on are going to be filled. Again, you hire the right legal team that will subpoena that information, you'll get that information and once you look at it all together, your assets, your liabilities, and what your spending looks like, think about not only today, but think about the future. And the reason I say that, I just was talking with a client and her lawyer yesterday where she wanted to just accept the settlement offer that her husband is proposing because this process has been so excruciating and so difficult and her mental health has just been very much damaged. Stacy: And we encouraged her not to take it. Number one because it's not equitable. But number two, this decision is gonna impact her for the next 45 years of her life. It's going to impact her children. And so making sure that through this process that you have a therapist, that you have the right support team, a fantastic attorney, ideally a certified divorce financial analyst, so that you have your team to help you get through this process as whole as possible so that you are in a financially sound position. And that is the second piece of, in addition to supporting yourself with the right team, making sure that you think about, again, not just today, but 5, 10, 20, 30 years and modeling out what is the settlement going to look like for me? Does the income I'm earning from my job, is that enough? Stacy: Do I need to go back to work? Do I need to revise the way I'm spending my money? And these are all questions that need to be answered. Can I afford to stay in the primary home or do I need to sell when the kids go to college? Or do I need to sell right now? Because what I find is that this whole process can be so overwhelming that you just get through it, you accept that and then the person, if they're the person receiving child support and or spousal support, normally, they're pretty much okay during that time and they don't plan for what happens when that stops because guess what? It is going to stop. So thinking about the long term and making sure that you protect her down the line. We all love ourselves now. Mikki: Your future self, yeah. Stacy: Exactly. We love ourselves now and we need to protect her too and make sure that down the line, that she's gonna be financially secure and safe. Mikki: Yeah. I love that. I appreciate you bringing that up. So many times it's easier for us to do things for our children to think about them and what they need than ourselves. But you're speaking to, we've gotta look at everyone, your children, you today, but also you in the future. Right? Your children in the future. And that's why we have to, I love that you have that sort of support in there and I appreciate you sort of listing out, to have someone that's taking care of your emotional and mental health during all of this. Having someone looking at the finances, financially looking at things and then the attorney, because most of the time we just get an attorney. And it's like, okay, I'll just go that direction but that's a limited, that's only one piece of the pie. And so I love that you are really looking at it a holistic way, it's how can we get support? And there is so much support out there and just you being such the beautiful soul that you are also have the nonprofit, right? Because not everyone can afford... Stacy: Exactly. Mikki: All the team, but there's still resources. Stacy: There are still resources and you're a fantastic resource, right, Mikki? I mean that's definitely a number one. And also through Savvy Ladies. So we, tend to work with women through Francis Financial are quite wealthy. They're usually walking away with their marriage with about $2 million. And I on purpose work with a different type of clientele than we serve with Savvy Ladies. Because I don't want there to be any mixing. Through Savvy Ladies, a third of the women who come to us are contemplating or going through divorce and we have 185 volunteers who are financial experts and about 40 of them are certified divorce financial analysts like myself, who have sometimes decades of experience working on hundreds of matrimonial cases. So it's a great resource to go to. And if you go onto the savvyladies.org website, you'll see the helpline, put your question and within 48 hours we'll match you with a CDFA to work for one hour together. And if you need more support, you can come back to the help line. I will tell you that we're on the way to making 5000 matches. Mikki: Oh, fantastic. Stacy: Between women in need and fantastic financial professionals. And when I say women in need, I also wanna say this, that we don't income test. And that is very unique and special. My grandmother, they were middle income. She would not have qualified for a lot of services that other charities might offer. She would've qualified because of abuse, but she was too embarrassed to talk about that. And through Savvy Ladies, we wanna make this available to everyone. And so, wherever you are in your life, whether you are not married and starting your career with your first job coming outta college and trying to balance, do I pay off student loans? Do I put money in my 401k and get a match to the woman who is caring for a spouse who might be terminally ill, or the woman like we're talking about today, there's a wonderful place and a resource for you. Mikki: Oh, I love that so much. Thank you for... I'll just say thank you on behalf of all the people because it's just so important. And I know that so many of my clients, a lot of the work that I do is post divorce. As they're co-parenting, as they're sort of moving through the whole process, they've gotten out of the divorce, but oftentimes we're looking back and having to deal with the decisions that they made then when they were just trying to get it all done with as quickly as possible. Just fine. Just let's be done with this. I don't want the conflict, I don't want any of that. But in doing that, they didn't make the decision for supporting their self now. And there's a lot of shame and guilt and anger that's associated with all of that. And so that's what I see and then that impacts the continued co-parenting relationship moving forward. If there's a contentious divorce, we can almost guarantee there's contentious co-parenting until somebody breaks the cycle. And so I appreciate that you have options for anyone so that they can start to make these decisions. It's so, so important. Stacy: And another thing to think about is after the divorce, while things are not necessarily over and you're always going to have a relationship with that person, they are the parent of your children. And so putting tools in place to make that as easy as possible to have the ongoing relationship. Obviously working with someone like you, Mikki, but there's also a wonderful resource that a good number of our clients use called Our Family Wizard. And it's a website that you can go to www.ourfamilywizard.com. I'm not affiliated with them at all, but I think it's very helpful, particularly dealing with reimbursements for expenses and add-ons. Add-ons would be things such as extracurricular activities, tutoring, medical things that are not covered by your typical child support. And you can send the invoices to your co-parent, you can see exactly when they've been read so that there's never this I never received that and you can have it linked directly to your bank account. So it's easy, seamless, and hopefully taking some of that conflict away because there can be a lot of conflict especially around the finances after. Mikki: Absolutely. And I think it's important to just as much as you, like you said, streamline. To get as much... Stacy: Yes, streamline, streamline. Mikki: Yep. Clarity as possible so that there's not confusion because it's in the murkiness, in that sort of messiness where everything gets tangled up. We get lost in that and then we can't see clearly. So it's really important to have whatever it is. I have several clients that use that and it can become a tool for manipulation. When it's only allowed, when we're only allowed to use this for all means of communication, that's where I see it becoming really difficult. But for something like this where you're just keeping everything very clean and very technical, whether it's finances or scheduling, that's awesome. And I think looking for ways, but we still have to be finding ways to communicate outside of that in effective ways as well. So that's a whole different show, so. Stacy: Yeah, I know, I know. It is another show and it's a really important one. And since we're talking about children, I'd love to piggyback on something you said, Mikki. So often as moms we're really, and dads, we're focused on what's doing best for our children. This is a time where what's doing best for your children is actually what's doing best for you. And making sure that you're financially secure and that you're building your retirement, that your spending is appropriate for the level of income that you have, not only during the time when you might be having child support or spousal support, but also after. If you're the breadwinner and you're actually paying child support and spousal support making sure that you are doing everything you can to save during this more lean time. Because I've seen far too many children who then come to us who are in their forties, sometimes even fifties and sixties, where their financial plan does not work because they have to pay for mom's healthcare costs or her housing because she has nothing left. Stacy: And the largest number of women who live in poverty above age 65, and this is hard to hear, but it's women who have been divorced. And the amount of women, the percentage is staggeringly high. It actually has not gotten any better even in the last few decades. So the highest risk to living in poverty is getting divorced, but getting divorced and not taking agency over your money. And the best way to take agency over your money is really seeing what you have. And I think about it every morning I jump on the scale. And I'll tell you Mikki, I don't like what the scale tells me, but guess what? I jump on it every morning and I cannot fool myself. Because it's telling me exactly where I'm at, so I know what I need to do. It's the same thing with our finances. We need to see where they're at and there are some great resources. Mint.com is one, Personal Capital is another. There are quite a few resources where you can, it gets an aggregator where it will show you and connect your credit cards, your checking, your savings, brokerage account, retirement, mortgage, even your home so that you can go to that dashboard, which I do at least once a month and I can see everything. Stacy: And it also tracks my spending just like jumping on that scale and seeing, sometimes it's a little painful. It's a little painful. But I see it and it helps me make better decisions and it also makes me remember that person in the future, my future self. And I will give you an a good example. We were trying to get Phantom of the opera tickets because they're about to leave Broadway here in New York and I really wanted my children to see it. And I had that emotional, I really should be doing this for my children because they'll most likely never have the opportunity again. The price of the tickets, when they came back Mikki, they were a thousand dollars a piece. And I kept on going, what do I do? I really want this. And there was the moment of like, what is best for my children? What's best is actually not to take them. So instead, we're gonna go to putt putt golf and you know what? They're actually more excited about it. [laughter] And you know how cheap putt putt golf is. Mikki: Yes. Stacy: But thank goodness I'm on top of my finances because guess what, when that came back I was like, that does not fit in our budget. I'm not so sure whose budget it would, but it really doesn't fit in ours. And that's a great example of how seeing and knowing helps you make good decisions. Mikki: A thousand percent. And I love that you also still connect it, right? Because why did you wanna take your kids to Phantom? It's to have this experience with them and to feel like you're involved and connected and sharing joy together. Stacy: Exactly. Mikki: And there's also other ways to do that. So I love that you sort of hit on both of those because I think that's... After divorce we worry about our time being taken away, our money. All the things that are gonna be taken away from us and it's, we almost have to double down on what you're saying, to get really honest and really straightforward with yourself and find ways to infuse joy and fun, whatever that looks like. Whether it's putt putt or a walk or whatever. Stacy: Yeah. And it doesn't have to be expensive. And one of the things we're really trying to double down on our savings for retirement and during the summer, we typically go to England, that's where my husband's from, his whole family is there. And we save up all year to take everyone on a vacation and they're not fancy. And this year, we've been traveling all over because my son's looking at colleges and I was like, Michael, it just doesn't fit in our budget. And so we reached out to the family saying, we're just gonna come visit and can I tell you the first response was, thank goodness because our summer's so busy, we had no idea how we were gonna fit this in. Stacy: We're renovating our house and we kind of need to be around. And so it just, it was, and I didn't wanna let people down and it's so funny how we do that. We do that in our mind of not wanting to let people down but what we find is that there are so many other ways to have that special time and to have those special moments. And so as moms and dads and for everyone just to know that your kids don't care about being in the first row of whatever concert. They're just as happy to be in the very back because you took them. And that if that concert is too expensive, you can do putt putt or you can do whatever. Kids wanna spend time with a happy parent who loves them. Mikki: Exactly. Stacy: And they don't really care about the home they live in. I've talked to so many children and interviewed them, what they care about is being in the same town so they can continue to go to their school, their boy scouts, their girl scouts, their soccer, their whatever, that's what they care about. It's less about that home they grew up with. But we attach that and we can't do that. We tell ourselves we can't rip our children from their home. Even those words that I just said, it's violent and we feel responsible. When you really have those conversations, you realize it's you, it's love, it's their community. Mikki: Exactly. Exactly. Oh, I love this conversation. I wish we could keep talking forever, but I wanna be respectful of yours and my audience's time. So, if there were maybe one or two things that you really wanna tell a mom who's struggling, right? She doesn't wanna talk about this, but she knows she has a problem or she knows that she doesn't know what she doesn't know, what would you say to her today to help show her a little bit of light and love? Stacy: My biggest hope for her and the words I'd like to say is number one, giving her a big hug and telling her that I know a lot of this is scary and that you may not feel very confident about your money skills, but it's only because you probably haven't had a lot of experience or education. I felt that way too. I sat in the back of math class, I never raised my hand, I never expected to do this. I took my first course and my entire outlook changed because I realized number one, this is not rocket science. And us as women, we are actually better money managers than men. We are better at tracking our budget and our returns on our portfolios are actually higher than our male counterparts. Just telling you that. Mikki: Good to know. Stacy: Oh, yes. This is very true. And the reason you may not feel like this is your forte is just because you haven't really done a lot of it. And think back to the first time you jumped behind a wheel of a car. That probably felt pretty or darn uncomfortable. But now you jump in behind a wheel and you don't even think about it. It's natural. This will be too, it's just gonna take some time. So give yourself that time, number one and number two, do something small every day with that education. And whether that's reaching out to a financial advisor to have a consultation or it's reaching out to Savvy Ladies. To look at our courses, we have hundreds of different courses or even the helpline. Do something small and do it not only for you, but do it for the people you love, for your kids because you need to. Mikki: Yeah. Oh, Stacy, thank you so much. So I'm gonna put all the links in the show notes, but where is it easiest to connecting, follow you? Where do you like to hang out? Stacy: So I want to give you two links. First for Savvy Ladies, again a great resource for education, www.S-A-V-V-Yladies.org, Savvy Ladies and there's two Vs 'cause I say it's very, very good. So savvyladies.org and then Francis Financial, if you're looking for a divorce financial analyst or someone to work with potentially on an ongoing basis, managing your money, financial planning. And you can reach me at www.francisfinancial.com. A lot of great resources there for you too. So two great resources. Mikki: And if they're not in the New York area, can they still work with you? Stacy: We work both through Savvy Ladies. We're in every single, we have women from every single state and several different countries. And through Francis Financial, we work with clients now in about 25 different states. Mikki: All right. Good to know. Stacy: All over. Yeah. All over. Mikki: Awesome. Well, Stacy, thank you so much for being here and I have a feeling there's hopefully another discussion in our future just to help women empower themselves and their children and their families. So thank you for being here. Stacy: Thank you. Mikki: Thank you so much for spending this time with me. I'm really grateful that you're here with me each week. And if you're receiving value from this free podcast, I would be so, so grateful if you would take a moment to subscribe so that you follow the show. That way, you never miss any of these great conversations. And also, if you would rate and review the show, it really is the lifeblood of any podcaster. But most importantly, what it does is help other women just like you find help and support. So if you value this show, then I just ask that you take two minutes to rate and review the show over on Apple Podcasts. Thanks so much. And until next time, take really, really good care of you, friend. [music] Mikki: Thanks for listening to Co-Parenting with Confidence. If you want more information or resources from this podcast, visit coparentingwithconfidence.com. I'll see you next week. [music]