Ep #126: Building Healthy Stepfamilies with Cameron Normand

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Mikki: Welcome to Co-Parenting with Confidence, a podcast for those courageous moms out there who wanna move past the conflict and frustration of divorce and show up as the mom they truly wanna be. My name's Mikki Gardner. I'm a certified life and conscious parenting coach with my own personal dose of co-parenting experience. Throughout my co-parenting journey, I have learned to become confident in who I am as a woman and a mother. And I'm here to help you do the same. If you're ready to learn what it takes to become a great co-parent and an amazing example to your children, well get ready and let's dive into today's episode.

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Mikki: Welcome back to the podcast, my friend I'm excited about today. I have a wonderful interview with Cameron Normand, who is the CEO of Stepfamily Solutions. And she has so much great wisdom to share with us from the perspective of the stepmom. But before we dive into that, I want to talk to you about something. I've decided to extend the Co-Parenting Audit that I'm offering, because it has been so popular and so helpful for the co-parents who have gone through it. And I wanna give you that opportunity. One thing that I see over and over, and I know from my own life I totally relate to, is so many co-parents get triggered by the other co-parents' actions, and they end up reacting in ways that they don't intend. Have you ever been there? But when we react, when we're just in that reactive mode, we end up creating more mess and more frustration that you are the one who ultimately has to clean up. And trust me, I get it. Co-Parenting with a difficult ex is stressful. It's exhausting. Co-parenting period is stressful and exhausting.

Mikki: But too much of the time we get stuck there, because we're worn down from the endless conflicts, from the constant worry, we're leaving ourselves without the energy or the capacity to make intentional and decisive choices that will actually get us where we wanna go. Instead, we just get trapped in the overwhelm and sort of the enormousness of all the issues that we don't know where to go. And I don't want you to feel this way. I don't want you wasting your time, your energy, and your money, and I don't want you waiting until you're less stressed or less overwhelmed to make changes, because we know that that day doesn't come unless we intentionally start to change it. I don't want you waiting for your ex to change so that things are easier, because you might be waiting a really long time. And I don't want you having to wait for them to agree with you or validate what you wanna do, because that day might not ever come either.

Mikki: Here's what I do want. I want you to be able to give yourself the space, the time, and the intentional decision to move forward in a way that helps you shift your co-parenting dynamic that brings you more peace, that gives you more confidence, and that ultimately creates more ease in your life. And this is what the Co-Parenting Audit does. It's a way that you go through and start to look at what are all the ways that things are working and not working. And I guide you through the process. Listen, I don't leave you on your own for any part of it. I guide you through this thorough and comprehensive process to really evaluate what's going on. After that evaluation, you and I are gonna get on a call, a strategy call, and decide where we need to prioritize your time and your energy in this moment. And we are gonna craft a plan to do that. And then for two weeks, you are gonna get one-to-one support with me via Voxer, so that you stay focused and you stay intentional, and you stay aligned as you implement the changes in the plan.

Mikki: This is a highly personalized process, and you get to feel all the supportive, amazing benefits of coaching here, and it will help you start to reshape how you're showing up, which will influence every other inch of your life, I promise you. So, if you're ready to grab this Co-Parenting audit, it is only $297 for the month of March. I want you to have this experience where you start to create a genuine sense of calm and clarity and ease that comes from when you are intentionally showing up differently. And you, my friend, can do it, I promise you. So, please don't wait. The link is in the show notes. Or you can just go to Instagram and DM me and say the word audit, and I will send you everything you need.

Mikki: Today, I'm really bringing a great conversation to you that I'm really excited about. Cameron and I have been collaborating together, and she is just such a positive bright light, and I wanted to bring her here today because when we are in blended families, when we are finding ourselves in a stepmom position, it can be really complicated and we may not know how to navigate it. And Cameron has brought so much to this space, and so I'm really honored that she's gonna share with us today. Cameron Normand is the CEO of Stepfamily Solutions, and the host of the Stepmom Diary podcast. Through her coaching, podcast, magazine, and events, she has helped thousands of stepmoms and stepfamilies navigate their blended families. Cameron is a certified stepfamily coach, and her work has appeared in The Cut, Business Insider, CNET, and the Today Parenting Team, among others. Previously, Cameron spent 23 years working in politics. First on Capitol Hill, and then leading policy strategy in the roles at two of the world's top movie studios.

Mikki: She has got so much experience. She has been named one of Washington business journal's Women Who Mean Business. And currently serves on several nonprofit boards. Cameron is married to an army veteran and has four stepchildren, one with special needs. This woman has so much expertise, so much wisdom, and so much grace to share with us. I cannot wait for you to hear her. So, without further ado, let's dive in.

Mikki: Oh my gosh, we have such a treat for you today. I am so excited to welcome Cameron to the podcast. Thank you so much, Cameron for coming. I'm so excited about this conversation.

Cameron: Yes, I'm so happy to be here.

Mikki: So, I gave everybody your background and your bio and all the amazingness of you, but I would love you to sort of summarize who you are, how you got here, and tell us just a little bit about yourself.

Cameron: Yeah. So, I met my husband. I always hesitate to say like later in life because I still don't feel like I'm later in life. But unlike most of my friends growing up in the south who met their husbands in their 20s, I met Craig when I was 40. And had had a really great career and all of that stuff. Traveled, friends, all the things, enjoyed my single life for a long time. And when he came along, he had four kids, and I kind of thought I knew what I was getting. I mean, I had been a stepdaughter for at that point 30-something years. And so I kind of thought that I understood what the dynamic would be, and I got into it and realized as I think most of us, or many of us do as stepmom's, that I had no idea what I had gotten myself into, and that I needed a lot of help. And I think like a lot of us in this space, I looked around and I had some friends that were stepparents, but their dynamic was really different than mine. And I looked online and I looked for books, and you know I'm a lawyer, so I was just give me the blueprint and I can do this. And I was pretty surprised to find that there was no blueprint, and most of the resources that were out there just really didn't feel tailored to me.

Cameron: So, I started just diving deep and learning everything I could, and realized that if I was having this hard of a time finding resources, that there must be a lot of other stepmom's out there that were having a hard time finding resources. So, I started working to help them. And that's sort of how everything was born. And it sort of has ballooned over the last few years into a summit and a podcast and a magazine, and all of these things.

Mikki: Yeah.

Cameron: And really, I worked in politics for 23 years. I just got out of it this fall to do this full time. And I love it. It's so fulfilling. And I love... I truly love being able to help stepfamilies with this complicated stuff, because it's really hard. And it's a lot harder than people realize.

Mikki: Yeah. So, tell me, if you could maybe a couple of things, maybe it surprised you, maybe it didn't, but what felt hard about being in this new role?

Cameron: I think something that a lot of stepmom's experience is how alone it feels. Whether you're dealing with like a high conflict ex, or kids that you're having a hard time bonding with or whatever it is, you can talk to your partner about it, but they have a hard time understanding where you're coming from, because you're in kind of two different positions. They're the primary parent, and I think they want to understand where you're coming from, but they don't see things the same way that you see them because of where you're sitting. And you can talk to your friends about it, but for me, my friends that weren't stepmom's, same thing as my husband, they wanted to understand and they wanted to empathize, but they couldn't really appreciate. And I heard lots of things like, "Well, why are you so worried about this? They're not your kids anyway". And "Didn't you know what you were getting into?" And stuff like that. And I think it can be really isolating.

Mikki: Yeah.

Cameron: And especially if you're feeling a little I don't know if what I'm doing is the right thing, how should I navigate this? If you're a mom, there are a million books out there. There are a million websites and podcasts and morning shows that talk about mom's issues, and Mother's Day, and all this stuff, but as a stepmom, there's just not, that stigma is still out there. And so there's not as much stuff which makes you feel even more alone.

Mikki: Yeah.

Cameron: So, I think that's something that I think I certainly experienced, even with the most supportive partner in the world, you still can feel isolated, I feel like.

Mikki: Yeah. And you mentioned it's like the kids, but then it's also, there's the ex, especially if there's high conflict. There's all of these topics. It's like you want to be very present and in it, and at the same time feeling very much on the outside. And so...

Cameron: Totally.

Mikki: It's a hard thing to navigate and to know where your place is.

Cameron: Yeah.

Mikki: Let's talk about sort of the differences? What is it that you're experiencing as a stepmom when you're coming in with all of these good intentions? We all have very high expectations and wanna do a great job. But we don't know what we don't know. And so there's a lot of dynamics at play.

Cameron: Yes. Totally. So, there are two things. One of them is the second family dynamics are so different than the first family. And when we're coming...

Mikki: What do you mean by that?

Cameron: Yeah. So when you're coming into a stepfamily, whether it is a second family or third family, or so on, I always describe it as almost the reverse of a first family. So, when you're settling down with a first family, and you've met your person, you're either gonna get married or move in together or whatever that looks like for you. You're worried about your relationship, you're worried about how to live together. You're sort of spending that time together bonding and planning for the future. And then maybe kids come along. And then you're both tied to these kids together. You're both equally sort of invested in them, and you're dealing with all the things that come up around the kids. But in a second family, you have one partner that has already been through all that, there's been a loss. And then you have the other partner joining into this family unit that's already formed. So, it's almost like you never get that first part of bonding and learning how to live together, and you're jumping straight into the deep end.

Cameron: So, it almost flips it on its head. And the good news for stepfamilies with this, at least in my experience, is the first few years are really hard. But once you get past that, it gets a little bit easier every year. And the further you get into it, you look back and you're like, man, that was really hard. But we got through it. Whereas I feel like in first families, of course, that's not my experience, so I'm guessing here, but in first families, I feel like you're starting out together and it's sort of this honeymoon phase, and then things get progressively harder. So, it's sort of the reverse.

Mikki: Got it.

Cameron: The second thing that I always talk to stepmoms about that I think is not something that any of us really anticipate, and certainly something that I have experienced firsthand, is the amount of pressure we put on ourselves. We're joining this family that is already formed, that has experienced a loss, whether through the mom being deceased or divorced or whatever that looks like, there's been a loss. And you feel like you have to slide into this mom role. And throw the perfect birthday parties, show up at every single school event, show up at every practice, buy the perfect gifts, have all of the perfect holiday meals. Everything needs to be like this Pinterest perfect existence, because you've slid into this role and you've got to be like Supermom or super stepmom. And I think that's a trap that's really easy to fall into. And I definitely, definitely had it. I mean, my first year of marriage, the birthday parties that I threw were like insane. And Craig kept saying, "You know you're not putting this on Pinterest. This doesn't have to be perfect". And I'm like, "No, but it does. It has to be perfect". And guess what?

Mikki: Because it wasn't about the party. It was about...

Cameron: It wasn't about the party.

Mikki: Establishing your role, and your space within the family.

Cameron: It was about... Yes. It was about me trying to feel like I was doing a good job. Trying to be good enough. When I was able to take a step back from that and think about what it is that the kids really needed from a birthday party or from whatever. You know what kids need. They don't remember the little details. They don't remember that you like slaved all day, making cookies with the perfect icing and all of this stuff. They remember that you made good cookies. They remember that they had fun at their party.

Mikki: Yeah.

Cameron: They remember that their friends were there or whatever that... You know what I mean. They remember the feelings. And when you can kind of take a step back and say, "You know what, I don't need to kill myself over this. I can be who I am. Which is this amazing person that my partner fell in love with. And that's good enough". And I can do a good job, based on me, not based on what I think others expect out of me.

Mikki: Right. Yeah. Yeah. And when you were talking about it too. It's like, yes, there's all this self-imposed pressure to be perfect and to fit in and to be good enough, but also when we're putting that pressure on ourselves, we're absolutely inadvertently putting the pressure on the kids to validate that for us. It's like.

Cameron: Absolutely. And then they don't...

Mikki: And that when you...

Cameron: When you don't hear that, "Oh, this was the best birthday party ever, thank you so much", and blah, blah, blah, then you're disappointed. And you either feel like, "Well, what did I do wrong?" Or you get irritated with the kids because how do these kids not appreciate all this effort I went to? That's not a great place to be.

Mikki: No. Because it's like putting so much pressure on everybody, for everybody to comply. But whether you're parenting, step parenting, co-parenting, whatever, when we're stuck in that role of needing them to validate, needing them to prove we're all okay, it's such a dangerous game and a cliff that we're gonna fall off of every time because everyone's having their experiences and we're not making room for that. So, I love how you're being so honest, and I'd love to hear like, how do you set yourself up to go into this situation? Because whether you're already in it or you're going into it, or it's been not the way you want it so far, like what are some ways that you can start to take the pressure off, but really start to show up in a way that feels good in how you want to.

Cameron: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it can be hard, but there are some easy things you can do. Line up all the expectations around like if you're planning for a big birthday party or a graduation party or whatever's coming up, even if it's just the holidays like line up expectations, and I don't mean just yours, although those are important. You wanna think about how you want it to play out, sit down with the kids and say, "Hey, this is coming up. What are you thinking? What do you want this to look like?" Now, they may... And I've certainly had this with my... I mean kids are kids. They have no idea how much stuff costs or anything like that. They may say, "Well, I want a petting zoo and horseback riding in the backyard, and a princess to come". Whatever, then you realign the expectations. Say, "You know what, that's not all possible, let's get things more in line. Do you want a bounce house? We could probably rent one of those". Or you know what I mean. Think about it with the kids, because again there are things that they're gonna get really excited about, and remember.

Cameron: And then a lot of the other stuff is just fluff. And you want it to be fun. You want it to be a fun time for everybody, but it doesn't have to be this crazy perfect experience. And then another thing I would say is focus on the things you can control. You can control how you react to things. And so if the kids come out and you've planned this amazing day with all of their input and everything, and their reaction is less than you would've wanted.

Mikki: Oh, yeah.

Cameron: Check that in advance, because kids are never gonna react the way... I mean, I can't tell you how many Christmases we've had work. One of my stepsons has opened a present that I am convinced is gonna be his favorite present ever, that I've spent all this time agonizing over picking up. And he is like...

Cameron: Oh, cool, next.

Mikki: Yeah.

Cameron: [laughter] You're like, really?

Mikki: What?

Cameron: [laughter] But if you can kind of go into it and set your own expectations for how things are gonna play out, I think that really helps a lot.

Mikki: Oh, my gosh, I totally agree with you. It keeps coming up. I remember the first birthday party that my son's stepmother was coming to, and so it was, I can't remember which one it was, but he was having a Harry Potter birthday party, and so and I'm an ex-event planner, so my kids early birthdays were a little over the top, but this one was like I wouldn't admit it at the time, and it was before I was I think doing a lot of work. And so I wasn't super conscious as to what was going on, but I absolutely wanted to be seen as throwing the absolute best party, having her be very comfortable and us being like, this is no problem. This is no problem.

Cameron: Yeah, 100%. I did the same thing.

Mikki: I have no idea how she was feeling about it, whether she wanted to be there, like I knew nothing. But here's the worst part about it is, it was Harry Potter. So I got them all like the glasses and the little cakes and stuff, and we had them all in the different houses, and they were going to play Quidditch, and it was a big soccer field. And, in my mind, this was brilliant, I got little brooms, and they all lined up and they had a ball and they all lined up facing each other with the broom handle sticking out, and were basically about to do full contact soccer football and all I could see was brooms going into eyeballs, and I was like, "oh, we have to stop"

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Mikki: And they were like, "What?" Anytime like in the time one round, one round and then I took all the brooms away and I was like, "Oh, my gosh, Mikki, you got so caught up in what this was gonna look like that you completely set these children up for eyeball loss."

Cameron: Totally, I did the same thing. My stepdaughter, she was turning 12 right before we got married, and I threw this elaborate slumber party that she wanted the theme to be under the sea, so we did like mermaids, and I did this whole table scape of snacks for the girls and did little cheese triangles as shark sea and did like little Goldfish crackers and the netting. It was insane. We had this mermaid cake and they decorated cupcakes in the whole. It was just insane. We had a photo backdrop and all this stuff that they could do, and at the end of the day, what happened, it was like 26th grade girls running around the house like maniacs and grabbing handfuls of food and stuff whenever they could, and nobody paid any attention to all that. They had a good gift bags, I think the girls enjoy the gift bags, but I don't even remember what was in them at this point. So, it's just like that stuff just doesn't... It's getting some perspective on it, but I was doing the same thing, it's like I was brand new, I wanted to throw the best party ever, and kinda show that I deserved to be here and part of the family, and when you can kinda look back on that and say, "You know, that actually wasn't as important as I thought it was so you know."

Mikki: Yeah, and that's why I really love your approach of how do we build healthy habits, how to be intentional, how to kinda slow down and really find your place instead of getting like we all get wrapped up. And that's totally fine, and I always love to be able to give some actionable advice, but I know you have a lot of healthy habits for stepfamilies, but can you tell us maybe a couple of tips of how do you to slow down to intentionally find your space and find what your family is gonna look like because you are a family?

Cameron: Yeah, I think the number one biggest thing that I have found to be important and helpful over the years is communication. And communication with your spouse to make sure that you guys are aligned, and I think that's especially important early on as you're kind of realizing which every step parent does at some point in time that this doesn't really look like you thought it would, and understanding that it's okay to grieve that and that your spouse should understand that it's okay for you to grieve that a little bit. It doesn't mean that you're disappointed with life or anything like that.

Mikki: Yeah.

Cameron: So, communicating with the spouse, but also as you're building the relationship with the kids, communicating with them and being willing to have the awkward conversations. I think it's so important, especially if the kids are younger or in the tween kind of stage, and even in the teen stage, although it is, communication with teens can be really challenging and that's a whole different conversation, but I think it's important for you to get a grasp of what your role can and should look like, but to have some conversations with the kids about that too like being willing to talk about the awkward things.

Cameron: I have said to all of my step-kids at various points is like, "Hey, I'm guessing that there are probably times that you wish I weren't around, or that you feel like you wished your mom and dad were back together again." And that doesn't hurt my feelings. I'm okay with that. I've been there, my parents were divorced. I understand what that feels like, but I'm here if you wanna talk about it.

Mikki: What a gift to give children for that openness.

Cameron: Yeah, give them the space to feel how they're gonna feel because you don't ever want them feeling like they have to edit their feelings around you, or you want them to be themselves and know that you're a safe space that's a great place for your relationship to be, and I know a lot of step parents are like, "Well, I don't really know, I'm not really like a parent and I'm not really like a teacher, a babysitter, like what should I be?" And I think that's a great opportunity for you and your stepchild to figure that out on your own. It can look different with every stepchild, and you can say that to them like, "Hey, look, I'm not your mom, I'm not your dad, we don't have to have that relationship. You and I get to figure out what this is all gonna look like. And I know there might be times you don't want me around, or times you wish I wasn't around, or that you wish your parents had never gotten divorced, and that doesn't hurt my feelings. It's normal and it's okay. But I am here and we get to figure this out together."

Mikki: Yeah, I love that advice. And I think what keeps coming up for me too is there doesn't have to necessarily be a defined role other than your one more person to love these kids.

Cameron: Exactly.

Mikki: To love and protect these children in this world, and so that's your only responsibility and so what looks like...

Cameron: And another person they can turn to, yeah.

Mikki: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Oh, I love that. I think communication is so key because we don't wanna have those awkward conversations a lot of time, or what if it falls flat and it's not received the way we want. Are there any tips you have on how to communicate or opening up communication? Because it's probably awkward.

Cameron: It is hard. I think you have to look for the opportune moments and then I wouldn't make a big production out of it or say, "Hey, we need to go and have a conversation." I wouldn't make it awkward, but there will be opportunities if the kid is grumpy and you know that what's really bothering them is that they are not happy with the arrangement or they're feeling sad about having to split time in different houses, that's a great opportunity for you to just start to take advantage of and say, "Hey, look, I know this is really hard for you." The more you can empathize with them, let them know that you're on their side. One of the things that I did when [0:26:03.8] ____ were smaller was every once in a while, if they were in a big fight with my husband, every once in a while, I'd let them see me take their side, and I'd usually tell Craig either before I did it or after like, "Hey, look, I just I feel like they kinda just could use an ally right now," but that really that helps them trust you, and it also helps develop that relationship.

Cameron: It's hard. There's a reason that they say that it takes five to seven years to blend a family, right? It is hard. And these kids don't have fully foreign brains, your brains don't develop fully until you're like 26, and so they have all kinds of emotions going on and swirling around that they're not even aware they're having, and it comes out in these crazy ways. It could come out in temper tantrums, or they're angry or they're sad, whatever that looks like, it comes out in different ways. And so I think really having a lot of patience is huge too because an empathy for where they are. I do empathy exercises with a lot of the women that I coach about, like, "Alright, let's think about when something happens, even with the ex." And this is the one that I get the most resistance on that my stepmoms are like, "I can never empathize with her. She's awful." "Okay, well, let's just pretend." But really, when you can take a step back and say, "Okay, if I'm this kid, my parents have split up, and I've got this new lady living with mom or dad, how am I gonna feel." If you can really kind of walk through that with yourself and get a little empathy, that helps so much with having these conversations.

Mikki: I love that piece of advice, 'cause I think it's so important to be able to put ourselves right widen the lens of the perspective and understanding that behaviors that are coming out are just sort of symptoms of what's going on underneath, and so we're able to put that detective hat on to say, kind of remove ourselves from the situation and understand what else could be going on. It allows us to have such a wider lens of what's happening, and then I talk a lot to my clients about unhooking ourselves emotionally. Just even just for a moment, can we unhook the emotions and just look at it on a more factual basis because then you start to find a solution, then you start to find ways that you can maybe make some positive change, so I love that so much, and I wish we could talk forever and ever about this 'cause I agree with you, and I'm so glad that you give a resource for stepfamilies and one that is healthy and conscious and sort of moving forward, because like you said, there just is not enough out there of ways to do this well, and ways to do this in a loving, intentional manner. So, I always ask the same question of all my guests, because this is a Co-Parenting with Confidence, and so I'm curious how you define confidence and how it shows up in your life?

Cameron: Oh, that's a good one. I think for me, it's a couple of different things. I think it is learning to go a little easier on myself and not put so much pressure like we were talking about, but I think it's also trusting my instincts. At the end of the day, I think we all have pretty good gut instincts and really learning to listen to that, and when you can listen to your gut, you can listen to what other people are having to say too, and I think that helps, but I think some of it is a little bit of kind of doing what you are suggesting and pulling back and maybe looking at yourself a little more objectively, like, "You know what, I am doing everything I can do." And I always tell stepmoms that come to me, I'm like, they're like, "Well, I just I'm worried. I'm not doing a good job." I'm like, "If you're here, you're doing it a good job because you care." You wouldn't worry about it if you're doing a bad job.

Mikki: Yes, yeah, if you even have asked the question, you're already doing a great job.

Cameron: Yes, totally, totally. So, I think it's a little bit of like, Alright, objectively, let's think about this, things are probably going better than I think they are. I am probably doing a better job than I think I am because we're all way harder on ourselves that we should be, you know?

Mikki: Absolutely, absolutely. Well, tell people where they can find you and all of the places.

Cameron: Yeah, so I am at stepfamilysolutions.com. I am on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, all the things, at just @stepfamilysolutions. Super easy. And then I do have a podcast, the stepmom diaries podcast.

Mikki: It's so good. You guys listen to it.

Cameron: Thank you.

Mikki: And I think you have a little free gift too for listeners.

Cameron: I do, yes. So, if you head over to stepfamilysolutions.com, I've got the 10 daily habits of healthy stepfamilies, and it is an e-book, and it's got some really good stuff about things you can do just a few minutes every day to get your stepfamily either on track or back on track.

Mikki: There we go. Oh, I love it. Cameron, thank you so, so much, I really appreciate you being here and for coming on and spending this time with us.

Cameron: Yes, thank you.

Mikki: Oh, and one more thing, the legal stuff. This podcast is solely intended for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to be a substitute for any medical advice. Please consult your physician or a qualified medical professional for personalized medical advice.

Mikki: Thanks for listening to Co-Parenting with Confidence. If you want more information or resources from this podcast, visit co-parentingwithconfidence.com. I'll see you next week.

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