Ep #128: Better Co-Parenting with Better Breathing with Ashlee Livingstone

Mikki: Welcome back to the podcast. I'm excited to have a great conversation for you today to listen to with a dear friend of mine, Ashlee Livingstone. I know that it left me feeling calm and grounded and I'm confident it's gonna do the same for you. Before we dive into that, I need to ask a little favor of you. For those of you who have been listening to this podcast and who've gotten value over the two years that we've been recording, or maybe you're new, but you're enjoying it, I need to ask a little favor, please go to where you listen to your podcast, whether that's Apple or Spotify, and please follow the show, and make sure that you never miss an episode. So if you were to follow it, I would really appreciate it, and while you're there, if you would be willing to give me a review, a rate and review, I would appreciate it. Five-star reviews, and your comments, do so much for other moms and co-parents to find this podcast, to get more information, to get more resources, so it's a way that you can give back to the future and also to me. So if you've been getting value from this podcast, I would really appreciate it if you would just take 30 seconds, go over, follow the show, give me a five-star review, if you want to, and a review. Thank you so much.

Mikki: So today, I have a great guest on, and I'm really excited for you to hear this conversation. Ashlee Livingstone is a Personal Growth Coach and Somatic Breathwork Facilitator, who works with leaders and parents and community builders to help them regulate their nervous system, so they can better manage their stress, their relationships, and learn how to create not only space for themselves, but how to move through the challenges so that they can support the people around them that they love most.

Mikki: Ashlee focuses on stress management, nervous system regulation, emotional intelligent, limiting beliefs, and self-doubt. Ashlee knows from experience you cannot give from an empty cup and is on a mission to help her clients continue to make the impact they want without burning out or sacrificing their well-being in the process. She is a proud mom, a wife, a co-parent, and an entrepreneur. And I know that you are gonna get so much value from this conversation. So without further ado, let's dive in.

Mikki: Welcome to Co-parenting with Confidence. A podcast for those courageous moms out there who wanna move past the conflict and frustration of divorce, and show up as the mom they truly wanna be.

Mikki: My name is Mikki Gardner, I'm a certified life and conscious parenting coach, with my own personal dose of co-parenting experience. Throughout my co-parenting journey, I have learned to become confident in who I am as a woman and a mother, and I'm here to help you do the same. If you're ready to learn what it takes to become a great co-parent, and an amazing example to your children, well get ready and let's dive into today's episode.

Mikki: Welcome back to the podcast. I am excited 'cause today we have a friend of mine, an amazing woman, Personal Growth Coach and Somatic Breathwork Facilitator, and I can't wait to share her, Ashlee Livingstone, with you. Welcome, Ashlee.

Ashlee: Thanks so much, I'm really excited to have this conversation with you.

Mikki: Me too. So I went ahead and told everybody about you, gave your bio, all sort of the professional end of things, but I would love to hear from you sort of just, sort of that short, who are you? Why do you do what you do? And share with us.

Ashlee: Yeah. So I am a mom, I'm a wife, I am a co-parent, as well, with my ex-husband, and I do the work I do because I've seen so much growth in myself. I think that that's really where it all started. When I had my son, I realized I needed and wanted to be just like an awesome parent and feel good. And when I needed to start co-parenting, I needed to up my game. So I went on my personal growth journey, still on it, and now I get to hold space for other people. And it feels pretty amazing. It’s, yeah, so that's kinda a little bit about me, and I'm a new puppy mom, so I am currently using my foot to entertain the puppy while we speak.

Mikki: Yeah, I just heard him talking, so...

Ashlee: I know, I'm sorry.

Mikki: If he has something to say, he can say whatever he needs to say.

Ashlee: Yes. Exactly, exactly.

Mikki: Mine is three years old, and usually under my desk, sleeping and snoring, so we're just lucky he's not snoring today, though.

Ashlee: There you go, there you go.

Mikki: It's dog mom life. So tell us more about what it means to be a Somatic Breathwork Facilitator, because I really wanna dive into what this looks like, but can you give us the super high level, just the frame of reference.

Ashlee: Yeah. As a breathwork facilitator, I work with my clients on helping them get out of their minds and into their bodies. And I get to hold such sacred space for people, and I think that that's what's really special about it. When we focus on the active conscious breath. We're all breathing all the time, breathwork is about really taking that to the next level where you are focusing on your breath and letting the body heal, letting the body regulate, and that's what I get to guide people through.

Mikki: Awesome.

Ashlee: I get to help people go from feeling super rattled, to, at the end of our sessions, feeling really calm, or releasing past hurts, and past experiences that are keeping them stuck.

Mikki: So as this is a co-parenting podcast, and this is something that I really wanted to talk about because the more... And one of the topics that we talk about a lot here is the reactivity, sort of how we are so reactive, and I think with divorce and co-parenting, it's one of those times when... Divorces don't happen for happy reasons. There's usually trauma, betrayal, something going on, something big has shifted.

Ashlee: Yeah.

Mikki: And now you are expected to deal with all that, and be this amazing parent to your child. And so that is a really, really tall order. And so I love to always bring tools and resources and knowledge about how do we start to actually move the needle, shift the dial into a more positive experience that we just feel better?

Ashlee: Yeah.

Mikki: And so I want you to talk to us about sort of the nervous system, regulation, why this is important, and why we need to be talking about that?

Ashlee: Yeah, first of all, I love how you framed all of that of, having to continue parenting with this person that maybe things didn't end on the best of terms, and there's a lot of past there. I think that that's something that, while we're planning for the future, you have to remember that there's a huge, long past that goes into it. So nervous system regulation is really all about getting you out of survival. So maybe we've heard about being... Having that sympathetic nervous system being triggered or activated, being in a fight or a flight, there's also freeze and fawn, when we are participating in our lives from that place, that place of survival instinct, we're on high alert. Our bodies and our minds think that we are in danger, whether it is perceived danger, or real danger, to the body, it doesn't matter. And so many of us, myself included, at times spend way too much time activated in our sympathetic nervous system, activated in survival. And when we are there, what I notice happens, I'll talk personally, I get really defensive. I think that I am being attacked, whether it's an attack on my character, attack on who I am as a mom, attack on my ability to accomplish things, or hold capacity for all the things I have to do.

Ashlee: I feel attacked, so I defend. That is my go-to. And I also think then I avoid. So then I get into avoidance, so I'll just start scrolling, or maybe I watch TV, I know some of my clients are just like, "I just wanna sleep all day." Avoidance. Our bodies are trying to say, "This doesn't feel good, I'm scared. This must not be safe, I'm out." And every now and then, getting into her sympathetic, getting into survival is necessary.

Mikki: Right.

Ashlee: Every now and then. You're driving and you need to slam on the brakes really fast because there is an actual emergency, you want to be in that survival instinct. What we don't wanna do is live there all the time. So the flip side of that is your parasympathetic nervous system, that's the nervous system, and the part of it that is responsible for rest, for relaxation, and for safety. When you are in your parasympathetic nervous system, your body feels safe. It feels safe to rest. How many people do you know that just can't ever sit still because it's not safe to rest. So what I love to do with breathwork is help people move from survival into safety. And when you are in this place of safety, you can make such better decisions, for yourself. We can be so much more clear on what we even wanna do today. I hear a lot from moms about Decision Paralysis, "If I have to make one more decision." It's because we're not doing it from a place of rest, we're doing it from a place of overwhelm. If we can be in this place of rest and safety when we are having a uncomfortable conversation, changes the dynamic completely. If I can go into a conversation with my son's dad feeling calm, feeling resourced, I am way less likely to be triggered by his stuff.

Ashlee: I get way less defensive, way less controlling, because I don't feel like it's life or death. But just to say, I know logically, the logic part of our brain knows that it's actually not life or death, but our bodies can't tell the difference. So that's why we behave the way we do.

Mikki: Yeah. So as you're talking, I'm like, absolutely, who doesn't wanna go into that conversation or that interaction with their ex, or any of those things, feeling in that sort of calm, in control, grounded state. But how do you do it? It's like the... But how? Right?

Ashlee: What I will say is that, it isn't a one and done, it isn't a, "Well, I'm just gonna take three deep breaths and I'll be solid for this really hard conversation."

Mikki: Right.

Ashlee: With practice and consistency, with focusing on regulating your nervous system, as part of your overall well-being. I think that that's what's really missing for so many of us is, people sleep like crap, you overload your calendar with so much that you are just buzzing and running from one thing to the next, you don't take any time or stillness for yourself, and then you're likely fueling your body with food that's not helping. It's not helping the situation. If I can just focus really on that stillness and that breathwork piece, is, how can we just create five minutes, 10 minutes a day, to be in stillness and just breathe, just work on your breath.

Mikki: I love how the puppy is completely not down with us, he's like, "We are... " Or maybe he is, maybe he's working on his breath right now.

Ashlee: I think the puppy is going, "Oh yeah, let's see how calm and collective you are while I bark through your podcast interview."

Mikki: Yes. Yes.

Ashlee: I think that's what's really happening. And I'm up for the challenge.

Mikki: Look at her, she's doing it. She's doing it, I love it.

Ashlee: Yeah, yeah.

Mikki: So I would love for you to give a couple of... So what would this look like? Like a couple of ideas of what... If we were just starting out, just starting to enter into this idea of, "Okay, putting in the consistency and the practice for your well-being, what would be some ways to start?"

Ashlee: Yeah. So I would do five minutes. Just start with five minutes and doing some grounding breathwork. My favorite for that is breathing in through your nose, and out through your mouth. So even right now, go head and just take in a nice big deep breath, in through our nose, out through your mouth. One breath.

Mikki: Yeah.

Ashlee: For me, and I feel calmer.

Mikki: Yeah.

Ashlee: So we wanna do that, if you can put on, I have tons of audio, so happy to share those, but also if you put on a really calm song, like spa music, or something that just helps you feel super mellow and grounded, and you breathe, you commit to breathing, like that, for the duration of the song, and just focus on the inhale, and then the exhale, ignore your kids, ignore the puppy, ignore everything. Set yourself up for just even five minutes of space for you, and feel, notice how that feels in your body. And that's how we build that window of tolerance of, "Okay, five minutes, I felt really great." Next time, maybe you can do 10 minutes, and soon you get to this point of, "Okay, we can set aside 20 minutes for some breathwork, we can also set aside one minute, and find ourselves feeling so much calmer."

Mikki: Yeah. I think such an important point, and I like that you said sort of the noticing, because I think it's important to notice, how you feel before you do it, and then how you feel right after you do it, because that is gonna be your evidence, for why to continue. 'Cause you said the practice and consistency, and it's not one and done, and so I think that's an important point to make.

Ashlee: Yeah, and don't you feel like we're always looking for proof. We're always looking for that, "See, see, I knew I was going to be stressed out by this day," or, "See, I knew that this wasn't going to happen." We seek proof to validate what we believe.

Mikki: Yeah.

Ashlee: So using the breath as, and go in knowing, or believing, "This is gonna help calm me down. This breath will help me get clear." And then seek the proof. Seek the proof. And, and keep doing it. A few breaths like that when... I don't know, I think of all the situations where I have to take deep breaths, you're running late. It's school, we're running late, my kid has once again lost his jacket, shoes, hat, whatever, all of the things all at once, taking a really big, slow, deep breath is the pause I need so that I don't project my frustration, I don't project my story about what happens when you're late. I don't project. And cooking dinner, or doing bedtime, or those transitions when my son is leaving my house and going to his father's, and he's upset. He doesn't wanna leave. If I participate in that, if I'm unregulated, we're in drama together now. So being able to feel in control of my reactions, so that I can confidently respond, has been such a game changer. Yeah, such a...

Mikki: I couldn't agree more with you because it's like our kids don't need us to react to everything that they're doing or to rescue them or to fall apart with them, they just need us to be sturdy, and to be able to navigate our own emotions.

Ashlee: Yeah.

Mikki: So that they have then the ability to learn how to do that for themselves.

Ashlee: Yeah, and I think that, going back to the co-parenting side of things, this has nothing to do with the other person. This isn't a, "here's some breaths to make the other person not seem so difficult." This is about you, and the work you put into you. The other person still may enter that transition, or they still may participate in a unregulated way.

Mikki: Yeah.

Ashlee: That's okay.

Mikki: Yeah.

Ashlee: That's okay. Because you're regulated.

Mikki: Exactly. Exactly. And I love the way that you are presenting this and talking about it, and I think it's so important. I'm a firm believer in meditation and breathwork, from my own life. But I think just to highlight one thing that I think is really important, is carving out that five minutes of time, sounds like it's not going to change anything, to the person who's like, "Urgh, it's just one more thing," or, "How could five minutes do anything?" But I think, to your point, our brain is always seeking proof.

Ashlee: Yes.

Mikki: But it cannot tell the difference between a truth or a fault, like fact or fiction. And so whatever you ask it to find evidence for, it will find evidence for. So if we ask it to find evidence of how everything is a mess, and how we're... It's going to be awful, it is going to give us all of those answers.

Ashlee: Right.

Mikki: If we ask our brain to find ways that we are calm, that we are in control, that we are capable. It's going to find those answers too. But this, it all begins with that ability to really start, and not even just ability, we all have the ability to do this, 'cause we're all breathing all the time, but it's letting yourself matter, it's letting yourself be worthy of five minutes. To let yourself need and receive five minutes, of time, and making that promise, and keeping that promise.

Ashlee: And it doesn't have to be fancy. It doesn't have to be a beautiful meditation space, and the candle's lit, and the bubble bath, like it doesn't have to be that. If you have capacity for it, and you want to make it a beautiful thing, have that. But, today, I am dealing with puppy things, and my wife got called into work early, and I wasn't expecting to be on today. Solo parenting. And I thought, "I have missed my breathwork." I've missed my practice so much this week, that when I got home from dropping my son off at school, I sat on the front steps, I put my headphones in, and I did five minutes. Five minutes and then the whole point was, "Just come back to me." It's not perfect. It's not glamorous, but driveway breathing, before you... I do lots of driveway breathing. I do it with my clients. They're sitting in their car, and, 'cause that's the transition. You've had a wild morning, and you're about to go to work, instead of carrying that with you, breathe while you're going to work. You had a bad day at work, breathe in your driveway before you reenter your family. Just take that space. Yeah.

Mikki: Yeah. So important. All right, so that five minutes is there anything else, any other tools that you would like to offer as sort of easy beginning steps?

Ashlee: Yeah, so the breath awareness first of all is really key. If you notice that you are holding your breath a lot. The phone rings, or someone knocks on the door, or you're reading an email, your kid comes home from school, whatever it is. If your ex walks in the door. There's so many times where we hold our breath, and that actually signals survival. It activates our sympathetic nervous system, and it's like danger. As soon as we hold our breath. So what we want to do in those moments, catch yourself, now if you're aware, catch yourself doing it, and take a big deep breath just in and out through your nose. In. And that will almost counteract the survival. It'll bring you back down. The other piece that I often like to say too is, sometimes we don't need to be calm.

Mikki: [laughter] Good point.

Ashlee: Right. Sometimes we get frustrated. Sometimes we're angry, we're sad, we're anxious. And while a grounding breath practice can be really really helpful, sometimes we actually need to move that energy so it leaves. And I would then say a breath pattern where you're breathing in and out through your mouth, so you're purposely activating yourself. Remember survival also is fight. We are almost fighting now, to move that energy out. So giving yourself permission to say like, "What do I need? Do I need to feel calm and grounded? Or do I need to move these big emotions I'm having, so that I don't just once again, swallow them, stuff them down, and wait for them to explode, at inopportune times." So opposite to putting on a spa music and soft, I like to listen to some Alanis, or Pink.

Mikki: Yes.

Ashlee: Or just something. Something where it gives you permission to move faster, and just breathe in and out, just through your mouth. Like that, and really focusing every exhale, is like, it's out. It's out. It's out.

Mikki: I love that.

Ashlee: And we say, "Get it out. Get it out." You can clench your fists, you can move your body, get that energy out, so that it doesn't come out somewhere else. It doesn't come out on the person when you're driving your car and they cut you off in traffic. It doesn't come out on your ex. It doesn't come out on your kids. It doesn't come out on yourself, right?

Mikki: Yeah.

Ashlee: So that would be I guess my three things, like instant calm, find some grounding, move some big emotions.

Mikki: Yeah. Oh I love those so much, that's so helpful. And I'm just curious sort of either from your own life or your clients, what transformations have you seen from this work?

Ashlee: Yeah. I'll share one of my client's story with you because, she's a young mom. She and her son's dad decided to not continue their marriage, or their intimate partnership. And she really really struggled with taking the bait, I guess, is what I'll just say. And was very a defensive, like openly, she would kind of coin herself that way, defensive, looking for the fight, ready to stand up and fight for that control. And when new people were introduced to her son from her partner... Like her ex-partner, it was triggering, it was upsetting, and there was a lot of drama. And the person who was suffering the most was her. Her and then her relationship with her son. So in doing breathwork along with really focusing in on her circle of control, she now is having conversations around boundaries when it comes to scheduling. Before her ex used to just like, "Okay, no, I'm not available anymore. He's with you." Or he just changed the schedule and she felt helpless. She's having calm, respectful conversations with him, and there's a schedule. And she feels really happy about it. They are communicating when each other has her son. So she's getting photos and there's FaceTime opportunities. She navigated a holiday season without her son. It was the first time that she didn't have him.

Ashlee: And she, she said to me the other day, "I feel so proud of myself." This other guy hasn't really changed, she has, and how she is responding to him, has in effect, changed how he is responding to her.

Mikki: Yes.

Ashlee: Does that make sense?

Ashlee: 1000% and I say it here all the time, it's like everybody wants to be an influencer. Start in your own home. Because when you are the shift, and whatever your energetic is that you're putting out, you are influencing the room around you. And so when we don't like what we're seeing, or the interactions that we're having, or the relationships that we're in, and we can... We start there. "How am I influencing this?" And I love that example of she really realized that she was reactive. She was adding to the problems, with that defensiveness. And so when we're more aware, when we're more honest, and we have the tools to be able to navigate it, I think essentially that's part of it, a lot of us know, "Yeah, maybe I am looking for the fight. Maybe I do do these things," but when we don't feel like we know where to go next, it's like you just feel helpless. And so I love these tools for being able to just simple practical ways to get back into your body, and the wisdom that your body holds, so that you can show up differently so that you can respond.

Ashlee: Yeah, and it's just.

Mikki: So important.

Ashlee: I know for me and I know for her specifically too, just the ability to be so much more self-reflective. Not self judgmental. No more guilt and shame that we put on ourselves, but just reflective, to be like, "Okay, this happened. What was my role? What could I do better next time?" And, yeah, it's just really taken the chaos out of that partnership.

Mikki: Yeah when we're able to be... I agree, like without judgment, without blame, and with compassion, how can we be reflective, and really start to see how we're influencing whatever environment we're in, and, 'cause we are, inevitably, so.

Ashlee: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that's the power of all of us. It's not the pressure but it is the power and the gift we have. And, yeah, so I think... Well, I love, I love what I do and I really encourage anyone to just... To start bringing your awareness to your breath, whether you're out for a walk or you're making dinner, whatever it is you're doing, just start to pay attention to your breath, and let it be of service to you.

Mikki: Yeah. Oh I love that. Well, Ashlee, your puppy probably is done with this interview process, but I have enjoyed it so much. I have one question that I ask everyone that's on, which is this is Co-parenting With Confidence. So how do you define confidence and how does it show up in your life?

Ashlee: Okay, so I define confidence as not feeling so stuck in doubt and worry. I think for me I spent so much time there, and now when I can just do with ease that to me feels confident.

Mikki: I love that. Yeah. Yeah.

Ashlee: And so, yeah... And that's how it's showing up in my ability to watch my son grow, and not, ooh, hold on so tight, when I'm like, okay, he's going out, and I'm not there. Or when he is at his dad's place and I just trust that he's having an amazing time. Without having control at all.

Mikki: Yeah, absolutely. Well thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom and all of your experience with us here today. Tell people where they can find you and all the goodies.

Ashlee: So the best place where I am most active is on Instagram, so you can find me there, it's Ashlee with two E's, so it's Ashlee Livingstone, with also another E. There's a lot of E's in my name. I spend a lot of time on Instagram, and then my website as well. I've got awesome freebies, so ask me questions, if you follow me and you're curious and just want to know more about breathwork, I love having that conversation with people.

Mikki: Awesome. Oh, well thank you so much for being here and for sharing with us. I'll put everything in the show notes so that they can find you.

Ashlee: Awesome.

Mikki: And I will hopefully see you soon, thank you for coming.

Ashlee: Yes.

Mikki: Oh and one more thing. The legal stuff. This podcast is solely intended for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to be a substitute for any medical advice. Please consult your physician or your qualified medical professional for personalized medical advice.

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Mikki: Thanks for listening to Co-parenting with Confidence. If you want more information or resources from this podcast visit coparentingwithconfidence.com. I'll see you next week.