Ep #71: An Interview with Amelia Kennedy

[music] Mikki: Welcome to Co-Parenting with Confidence, a podcast for those courageous moms out there who wanna move past the conflict and frustration of divorce and show up as the mom they truly wanna be. My name is Mikki Gardner, I'm a certified life and conscious parenting coach with my own personal dose of co-parenting experience. Throughout my co-parenting journey, I have learned to become confident in who I am as a woman and a mother, and I'm here to help you do the same. If you're ready to learn what it takes to become a great co-parent and an amazing example to your children, well get ready and let's dive into today's episode. [music] Mikki: Welcome back to the podcast, I'm so excited to be with you. You're on episode number 71. And today, I am not alone. I'm getting to share a dear friend of mine with you and a conversation that I hope really brings you some clarity and some new perspective. My friend Amelia Kennedy is here, she is a certified life coach, a professional organizer and a Fair Play facilitator. She really helps women who are frazzled, busy and overworked uncover the roots that cause these current lifestyle behaviors, and she helps them lighten their physical and emotional load. This is something that I love to talk with Amelia about when we have coffee in the morning sometimes. But really how do we shift in motherhood, in caregiving? And especially those of us who are co-parents, how do we find an equitable division of labor maybe when we're now on our own? Mikki: Well, this conversation today is for you because I think what Amelia does is open up the possibility to how we are looking at things and how we can shift our own mindsets so that we can find more support and most importantly, lighten our mental load which just helps us be better co-parents and better moms. Amelia and I actually met... Our kids were in school together and that's how we originally met. And so I've had the honor of spending a lot of time with her and I always walk away inspired, and I hope that that's what today's conversation will do for you. Amelia is the President of the Michigan chapter of the National Association of Productivity and Organizing Professionals. She's also a member of the Life Coach School Community as am I and the Institute for Challenging Disorganization as well as Black Girls who Organize and the National Association of Black Professional Organizers. She is just a powerhouse and I cannot wait for you to hear this conversation. Mikki: So as you're listening to it, I wanna point out a couple of things that I really took away and I hope that you take away. One is that the clutter on the outside is often just the reflection of the clutter on the inside. And when we are going through divorce, so often we have an urge to change things, an urge to fix, an urge to just frankly feel better. But what Amelia and I talk about today is really learning how to create the opportunity to heal and grow, to challenge the roles and the identities that you've been given maybe or that you have taken on. And that this divorce and co-parenting can be an opportunity to make new decisions for you when we stop and slow down and you start to ask yourself, "What do I want?" And letting that answer matter. Listen, we all know that co-parenting is difficult, when the communication is challenging, it makes everything harder. Mikki: And too often what we do is we just make the assumption that there's no help to be had, that there is gonna be no change to be made and we just stay in the status quo. And so I want you to walk away and sort of listen in this conversation to where might you be settling for that status quo. And are you willing to really ask yourself, "What do I want?" And let that answer matter for you, let it matter enough that you start to look at, what are the ways that I could possibly find some shifts here, that I could find them some support? And regardless of whether the other co-parent helps you or supports you or even answers the request, you get to at least ask the question, strive for communication. And then you get to own it, you get to know that you are doing your very best and you can let go of the mental load of wondering what if and move forward with what you can do. So without further ado, let's jump into this conversation. I hope you love it as much as I enjoyed having Amelia on. Mikki: Hi Amelia, I'm so excited to have this conversation today. Thank you for joining us. Amelia: I'm so glad to be here. Mikki: So I told my listeners all about the amazingness of you, and a little bit about how we know each other. But I would love for you to just dive in and tell us a little bit about you, what it is you do and how you got here? Just that little thing, just there in a minute. [laughter] Amelia: Sure. Well, I would love your listeners to know that you, Mikki, are the reason why I'm a coach. Mikki: Oh! [chuckle] Amelia: It's so good. So yes, a little bit about me. I am a professional organizer and a clutter coach, and I help women permanently eliminate clutter in their homes and lives. Mikki: Aww, so good. Amelia: And I have an interesting backstory. I grew up in a small town in West Virginia. I went to college and I met my partner really, really young. I moved overseas and then I decided to start a family and apply to graduate school at the same time. Mikki: Oh my gosh! Amelia: We moved to Boston for a year and then I actually took our 18-month-old to Chicago for the first year of my graduate program, and that was our first round of long-distance parenting and marriage. Mikki: Okay. Amelia: So two different cities, raising a child, studying, working. So then I was at home for 10 years, we decided to come back together. I left my graduate program and chose family, and then I decided to start a business. And I worked for several years in-home particularly with women, decluttering, simplifying, organizing their spaces and time. And around that same period, I started noticing changes in my mother who is living with dementia. And I remember having coffee with you, Mikki, and you said, "Hey, there's this thing called coaching and I love it, and you should look into the Life Coach School. It might help with business and caregiving and all your thoughts and feelings." And I ran with that. Mikki: Ah, thought... Yes you did. Amelia: It was the best decision I've ever made. And so it partnered well with the work that I was doing in-home because what I was discovering was that the clutter that is reflected on the outside of our lives, in our homes, in our spaces, is very much a reflection of the noise and the chatter and the mental clutter that is happening on the inside. Mikki: Yep. Amelia: And I love to listen, I love to explore these stories with women and untangle their deeply-held beliefs about what it means to keep a tidy home and this myth that we can achieve some sort of perfection in our spaces or our routines or within our home. So I love to challenge that and dig a little deeper. Mikki: Beautiful. Well, thank you for sort of walking us through that. And I feel like there are so many points that I could touch on, and I think that might have to be a separate podcast. And listeners, I don't know if you picked up on it, but one of the many, many, many things I love about Amelia is her ability to just challenge the status quo, challenge the roles and the identities that we have. And as she said, her first... What was it? Your baby was 18 months when you... Amelia: Yes. Mikki: Moved away from her husband, still married, went to graduate school and did it on your own, right? I mean, these are big, big things that you do and challenge and I think that's part of what I love so much about you. Amelia: Thank you. And it's something that I've come to own. I believe that I'm a risk-taker for my own self and my own sort of goodness. And really what I've centered on is asking myself, "What do I want?" And that is really a powerful question. Mikki: It is. Amelia: So in that moment, I wanted to at least try to see if I could get my PhD in Art History. And then I chose something different, that was fine. I wanted to at least try to start a business and it's taken off from there. Mikki: Yeah. And I think that's part of why I thought that you would make a perfect guest for my audience too, is with divorce, with co-parenting, a lot of it is being willing to challenge the roles, the identities, the prescription that has been put on you and deciding really divorce for a lot of us, whether it was choice or not, is the first time we get sort of... I don't wanna say a clean slate, but it's like you get the opportunity to make some new decisions, to ask that pivotal question that you just pointed out, "What do I want?" And so I love that you are an example of that, actually living your life and I can go on with stories about how... I'll probably do that in the intro. But I really love that you're an example of that. And so I wanted to bring you on to introduce you into my audience so that we could really start to have a conversation. And so I think this brings me to, why this podcast? Why this conversation? And as it relates to whether it's organization or distribution of labor or any direction that you wanna take with this Amelia, I wonder what do you see is a really big struggle, certainly for the women you work with but also divorced women? Amelia: For sure. One of the biggest struggles that I see is exactly what you've just described. And it's sort of where our specialties overlap. It's reigniting the sense of self-trust after a major life transition like divorce. Moving is another major life transition. And so if you are asked to move or choose to move, you're experiencing this moment where you really have to check in with yourself and rebuild that sense that you know what is best for yourself, your home and your children. And that is a journey, it's a pathway, it's not straightforward and it takes time to sort of untangle and relearn and rebuild what you want going forward. And many of my clients in particular, are looking to redesign or create a new space for themselves and they forget that this is an opportunity to express a new form of identity in this new portion of their life. So yes... Mikki: So tell us more of what you mean about that. Amelia: Yeah, I think it is both a struggle and an opportunity. It is a pattern of... Or a pathway of growth that we must navigate. Shedding the old, creating the new and realizing that maybe the new version of you likes different paint colors or likes a different approach to furniture or is living perhaps in a smaller space, but wants to open that up to brightness and creativity. And the beauty of our work is that we have the time and space to really explore and to understand that we come first and that there's power in choice over designing a new space for how the day's ahead. Mikki: So in putting myself in the listener shoes a little bit and thinking, one thing is, we're not just talking about space here, right? We're not just talking about things. And I know that... I mean, I know from my personal experience, I got separated, bought and sold the house all within three weeks of one another. Had I stopped and asked myself what I wanted, many of those things, two out of three would not have happened. So I just wanna put it out there, we're not just talking about space or a new house or a new anything. But it's really, like Amelia just said, slowing down enough to decide what you want. I mean, I know so many... I know what I went through and so many of my clients go through, is you just want the old gone which was my rapid fire buying and selling of homes, because I didn't think I could handle the marital house that we had. When really, we don't know it, but I know so many women are in that place. And so, what do you have to say to someone who's really struggling with not wanting the space they have or how to sort of move through that in-between phase? Amelia: Well, first we wanna back up a second and say that what I often witness is actually... Well, I guess it probably parallels. It's an urge to change and it may be an urge to fill the space or yes, maybe completely redo it. But there is something to be said for seeing how you move throughout your space, throughout your days with fewer people involved. So when there are fewer people in the space, you may find different places for things, you may find different opportunities for how to use the space that you're living in. And it's exactly that, it's patience and self-love and self-compassion to understand that things are in transition and that's uncomfortable, but okay. Mikki: I love that you pointed that out. It is that it is uncomfortable and the in-betweens are difficult and especially when there's still unknowns going on which I know so many of my audience are going through with co-parenting in sort of two houses and all of these things. But I love that point that you brought up, is when we can sort of slow down and have the patience to just see how it is that you are experiencing things. Amelia: And the second point that I will make, another struggle that I recognize is the need to sort of fix everything. So to change things or make things better or more efficient or more organized or even just treading water and keeping up the need to fix things for our children given the change of the number of people in the household. Mikki: Yeah... Amelia: Just being aware of when that comes up for you. Mikki: Right. And so I know I talk about it a lot, but what are your recommendations for when you do become aware, that that uncomfortableness has come up? Then what? Amelia: Yeah. I think it's acknowledging it, it's observing it, it's understanding that it's a normal and natural desire and seeing if you want to interrupt it. Choosing whether that is truly the action you wanna move forward with, whether that's helpful and healthy for an interaction between yourself and your children or for yourself and your ex-partner, really checking in and making sure that it's the best step forward at that moment. Mikki: Yeah, I love that. So Amelia, what strategies have worked for you and that you've been able to teach your clients to make co-parenting easier? Amelia: Absolutely. So surprise, I am on my second round of long-distance parenting and we are still married but by choice we're in a two-household arrangement right now. Some of us live in Michigan, some of us live in Florida and as parents, we swap back and forth. And I share this, because much of the conversation that we have behind the scenes involves division of responsibilities, division of labor, division of tasks. And I think that that is probably very similar to a co-parenting divorced situation. And so again, the communication may not be easy but the opportunity to make it as transparent and clear as possible is always a good win. So I have been studying and offer the Fair Play Method that Eve Rodsky developed, and that involves really consciously assigning household responsibilities and parenting duties to one particular parent. Amelia: And I think that this is a great arrangement for co-parents because instead of negotiating back and forth and one parent doing half the labor and the other parent picking up the slack or not knowing where the ball has been dropped, the idea is that, for example, school forms, health forms, etcetera, become one parent's responsibility. And it does take time to sort of divide the responsibilities between the two but knowing that one person is the dedicated default parent for conceiving of how to follow through with this parenting task, then executing it, it lightens the load for you as a mother. Amelia: So you know exactly the things that you take care of and trust that your ex-partner will be responsible for the remainder of the tasks. So it's consciously deciding, and you can invite planning, you can invite input, you can invite comments from your ex, but that doesn't decide the direction that you ultimately take with parenting your child around that particular topic. So it can be very sort of routine things like paperwork, or it could be a bigger conversation, let's say around puberty or social media, you can and divide up responsibilities over those kinds of conversations as well. Mikki: Yeah, I love that you brought this up because I think this is such an interesting... It's definitely a different approach that I'm guessing that many people haven't heard about. And I can already hear someone saying, "Well, that's great when you're married, right? When the communication is good. But what about when there's no communication or when the communication is difficult with the other co-parent?" I like what you're saying, is there still opportunity for you certainly to do it for yourself, but then also what support do you have so that you can start to lighten your load a little bit? Amelia: For sure, and that is the ultimate goal, to have less mental load, day to day and week to week. So that's where the initial conversation comes into play. You may not get the response that you want from the other person. They may not pick up the tasks that you are asking or assigning them, but to at least begin to see where the division of labor can be broken up or can be made easier, you're going to find some wins either way, either clearly knowing that it is 100% your decision moving forward or knowing that, yes, there are a handful of things that your partner or your ex-partner can be responsible for. Mikki: Yeah, and I love... I really appreciate you bringing this up because often times I know from my experience talking with women, they don't even ask. It's the assumption that's made, or the idea of asking is too difficult, and so just they stay in silence or just take care of everything themselves, right? Which just heaps more and more onto their plate and onto the resentment bucket, so to speak. And so I love this idea that even if you don't get the response you want, at least you have the relief of knowing, "Okay, this is just, something I'm gonna do." Amelia: Yeah, and then you get to choose as a mother, right? Are thank you notes even relevant, given all that I have to do? Do I need to make sure that my child reaches out to so and so to say, thank you or to give a gift or to wish them happy birthday. You suddenly get clarity around a particular parenting responsibility and then ownership over how you want to proceed and the value and importance to you as a mother, which I think is just a huge gift or weight lifted. Mikki: Absolutely. So in this idea of equitable division of labor, can it apply to other humans in the household as well? Amelia: For sure, yes. Children are much more capable than we give them credit for. And of course, yes, it takes time to teach them, to train them how to do tasks to your particular standard, but it's a great opportunity for dialogue around how they make an impact on your shared space and that they also can contribute. So my approach for raising organized kids has always been that, time dedicated to the topic truly frees me, my future self of this work. So reminding my kids, teaching them how to do laundry eventually will free me from having to do their laundry. It's a life skill that they will take as they grow and easily is movable between multiple households as well. So making or packing their lunch or making sure that a particular pet has been fed or watered or walked, it's not just chores, but showing how their impact in the space makes a difference for everyone involved. Mikki: I love that, right? It's not just chores to check off, but really understanding their participation and how everyone is connected in the space. Amelia: Yeah, because our goal is to raise thoughtful humans that can navigate the world independently after they leave our house. Mikki: Yes. Amelia: And we get to decide along the way what skills that we're passing on to them and what we think is important for them to know. Mikki: Yeah, and I love that idea, 'cause I know so many moms are like, "Well, I just don't have the time, I'm just so overwhelmed." And when you're the only parent in a home, we know that it's challenging and there is a lot to do, but almost this idea of, I love how you put it, it's like a gift to free your future self from this. Amelia: For sure, and I think knowing and expecting a little bit of resistance. So again, divorce, life after divorce is a transition, and you know as a parent that rules and guidelines and expectations can be implemented at any time. So just because you hadn't been doing it for the last six months or three years doesn't mean you can't start tomorrow, it doesn't mean they won't push back. Mikki: Yes. Amelia: But again, it's the practice, it's the routine for the things that you deem are most essential to making your household run smoothly, not towards this ideal of perfection, but just day-to-day functionality in your home together. Mikki: Oh. I love that you sort of drill down on that point, right, because what we're not talking about is the Instagram or the perfect room, but it's a room that works. Or a space that works and is free from clutter, free from everything that drains your energy. Amelia: And the best way to do that, just as a practical tip, is to build a new habit that you're trying to start with your child on to a familiar or automatic one. Mikki: So tell us more about that. Give us an example, what do you mean? Amelia: Yeah, so partnering something that they already do. Let's say they're really great at collecting their supplies after they've done their homework and putting their backpack by the door, well, you'd also like them to get their athletic gear or their music bag as well, because they have lessons the next day. So to get them to take responsibility for that next task, you are going to partner that with the task that they already do, just put their backpack by the door. "Oh, now it's time to go get your gear together or your music bag and place it there as well." Mikki: That makes sense, right? So building on top of what they already do well. Amelia: For sure that's always what we wanna highlight. Mikki: That's just a great tool. Yeah. I feel like I need to do that for myself too. [chuckle] Well, there's something I already do well. Amelia: Yeah, well. [chuckle] We always wanna go with... Start with what's working. Mikki: Yes. Amelia: And then add just a little bit more. Mikki: Perfect, So tell me, what are some strategies that have worked for you while you've been co-parenting or that you can teach other people to make co-parenting feel a little bit easier, or maybe those transitions feel a little easier? Amelia: I would always designate a central home for important things, and important things can be anything that you mean them to be, whether it's paperwork, school items, forms that you need someone else to sign, or simply items that need to go back and forth between the homes. When you designate a central place for them. You're not running around, feeling scattered, you always know where to direct your child or to direct you yourself, your own brain too, when you're walking out the door. I think that that is one of the best things that I can offer, because it truly is about this transition moment in transition time and bringing as much ease to an already challenging moment during the day. Mikki: I see. So I'm thinking, I always love to give sort of practical visuals for people as they're thinking. So this could be... I know for... I'll just use my own experience. When my son was younger, he had certain lobbies, little stuffies, that had I to go back and forth, right? And so now it's turned into retainers. [chuckle] It's like all of these things they have to go, and maybe there's a school form that has to get filled out, and so Amelia, are you seeing to have a designated place, like almost a basket or a home or a box or something that things get put into? Amelia: For sure, and I think even going a step further and maybe identifying with your child a possible checklist that they might wanna go through as they transition. So if you notice something's not in the basket 'cause you're looking at the checklist, they then can learn to double-check after themselves, to ensure that things are moving as smoothly or easily from place to place. And the child's too young to be able to read, you know for yourself, you can use a checklist like, "Do I have all the toddler needs, the baby supplies, the right outfits, the right information?" Mikki: And I think this is great on so many levels, but I think one of the things that I love about it is the idea of really going back to this division of labor for everyone that... Teaching your children to have autonomy over their things. To start learning the skill of knowing that they can have control even in a situation where they don't have a lot of control. Amelia: Yes, and not always relying on your brain to fill in all the exact details when a moment is uncertain. That's why I recommend even a checklist, like we're always busy, we're always moving, we may be feeling frazzled and whether it's yourself or your child, give yourself some grace to just review what it is that you're supposed to be taking along with you. But that autonomy for a child to receive control over their belongings is huge, it is a life-long skill and will create a sense of safety for them. Mikki: Yeah, and that's so important, and I'm glad you brought up safety, because I think that's the one thing that for children that's really shaken in divorce is their sense of safety. And that might not mean physical safety, but it means their emotional safety, their understanding of the world, has been changed, has been rocked, and then when they're required to be travelers and constantly moving back and forth, it is a lot for one little human to handle. And so from the mom's perspective or the dads listening, but from the person who's trying to be very conscious in their co-parenting, this idea of how are you setting yourself up to have less mental load, to have less headache, to have less clutter, physical, emotional or otherwise. Mikki: So that you can be free to be there for them. Because I think essentially the work that you and I both do is learning how to be more present in the life that you're in. And if we're consumed by all the stuff, either all the things to do or all of it, right, we're not present to where we are. Amelia: And the other thing that I will mention is, seems straightforward, but we often forget, is give yourself a generous amount of buffer or transition time. Actually place it on your schedule, block it off because we're spinning, we're in a hurry, and there's so much going on. And there's just such beauty in having more space, whether things go wrong or they go smoothly, just having that time actively in your schedule on a day where a child is making a transition can lower the anxiety a bit and create a bit more safety and calm. Mikki: Yeah, I love that. I know for us, Wednesdays... Sundays and Wednesdays are a little bit... Those are our transition days, right? And so I know that on Wednesday afternoon and evening, that is not a day to do anything. We don't want anything on the calendar if we can possibly help it, because I never know what version of child is coming back, right? And that's not a knock on the other co-parent, it's that he's a living, breathing human, which has all the emotions and the hormones and everything happening. And so, I love that you pointed that out, when we sort of keep the open space in our minds and our schedules in our homes, we create the ability to sort of have that soft landing that we wanna provide them with. Amelia: Yeah. We have to intentionally make the space to pause. Mikki: I love that. Well, like I said, I feel like we could do 16 podcasts and maybe we will hear Amelia, but so this has been really helpful for me, and I know that my listeners are gonna take so much away. I do want to ask you one other question, but since it is Co-parenting with Confidence, how do you define confidence? And why is it important? Amelia: Confidence is seeing yourself as the authority in your life and in your home. Mikki: I love that. Amelia: And it's also that process of acknowledging that what you want deep down inside matters. And taking the time to sort of breathe that in, whether the action happens today or in the future confidence is knowing that what you want matters in everyday life. Mikki: Well, Amelia, thank you so much. We could sit here, I'd personally like to sit here for hours and talk with you, but we have to be respectful of time. So, tell my listeners how they can find you, how they can reach out to you and get more of the amazing things that you're talking about. Amelia: Absolutely, you can find me at my website, apleasantsolution.com and you can connect with me on Instagram @apleasantsolution. And I'm also happy to announce that today is the launch of my podcast entitled A Pleasant Solution. Think about it, I made it easy for y'all. [laughter] Mikki: She did. No, no clutter there just straight on. Amelia: Yes. A Pleasant Solution, embracing an organized life, where I talk about how a clutter-free mindset is essential to an aligned and sustainable lifestyle. Mikki: I love that, and I cannot wait to listen. So please listeners, make sure you support Amelia and go over her Instagram is fantastic, and I know the podcast is gonna be amazing, I cannot wait to listen. Everything will be in the show notes, so all you have to do is click there and you can find her. But thank you Amelia, for being here and for sharing all of your beautiful thoughts on how to make things just a little bit easier and lighter, because that is the goal here, right? Amelia: Yes, simple is always best. And self-trust is where it's at. Mikki: I love that. Thank you. That's the show for today. Thank you, Amelia, for coming and having in this conversation, and if you know anyone who could benefit from it, please share it with them, just take a screenshot on your phone and text it to them or share it on social, and if you do put it on social, please tag Amelia and I at Instagram because we would both love to connect with you there. Thank you for spending this time with me today, I'll see you next week, and in the meantime, take really, really good care of you, friend. [music] Mikki: Thanks for listening to Co-parenting with Confidence. If you want more information or resources from this podcast, visit, co-parentingwithconfidence.com. I'll see you next week. [music]