Ep #47: A Conversation on College Preparation with Theresa Cry

Mikki: I'm Mikki Gardner, and this is the Co-Parenting with Confidence Podcast, Episode number 47: A Conversation on College Preparation with Theresa Cry. [music] Mikki: Welcome to Co-Parenting with Confidence, a podcast for those courageous moms out there who wanna move past the conflict and frustration of divorce and show up as the mom they truly wanna be. My name is Mikki Gardner. I'm a certified life and conscious parenting coach with my own personal dose of co-parenting experience. Throughout my co-parenting journey, I have learned to become confident in who I am as a woman and a mother, and I'm here to help you do the same. If you're ready to learn what it takes to become a great co-parent and an amazing example to your children, well, get ready and let's dive into today's episode. Mikki: Hi, welcome, friends. Thank you for joining me today. I know there's so many great podcasts you could be listening to and so many things you could be doing, and I'm really grateful that you're here with me today. Before I dive into today's episode, I wanted to ask a favor. If you're enjoying and receiving value from this free podcast, I would be immensely grateful if you would take a moment to go on iTunes and rate and review this show. It helps the show more than you know, and most importantly, it helps other moms find us to receive the same support and value that you're enjoying. Thank you so much in advance for taking the time to do me this favor. This podcast is really intended to offer new perspectives, to provide encouragement, and just have a whole lot of love out in the world. Mikki: I wanna be able to serve you and give you ideas to help you navigate the inevitable changes and transitions that you and your family are facing. And today, what we're gonna be talking about is a big transition that many kids go through: Going to college and preparing for that. Today, I'm offering you a conversation that I had with a wonderful human named Theresa Cry. Theresa is an independent college advisor who loves supporting students on their journey to and through college. She's also a child of divorce and has a very unique perspective and is a valuable resource for co-parents in learning how to best support their kids during this transition. Theresa has a variety of experiences in higher education, including admissions, financial aid, athletics and organizational development. Theresa's goal is to build relationships with her students and their families as they navigate the process to discover what major they wanna select, what college would be a good fit, how to financially make a sound decision, and she helps alleviate the stress and anxiety associated with the process. So without further ado, let's dive in. [pause] Mikki: Well, today, I am so excited because we have Theresa Cry with us, and this episode for September is really sort of back to school. We're looking at that all month-long. I know this is such a transition for so many of us with children, and Theresa represents one of the biggest transitions that kids go through and families go through. And so, Theresa, welcome to the podcast. Theresa: Thank you so much, Mikki. I really appreciate it. Mikki: Yeah. So Theresa is in college planning and helping families navigate, that's why I would love it if you would kind of tell me what you do, who you are, how you got here, and all that good stuff. Theresa: Wow, so I got here... Mikki: [chuckle] Just that. Theresa: Just a little bit. When I say it doesn't feel right, but I got here 20 years ago as a financial aid advisor at the University of Michigan. So that's where I started my career and worked there around a great team of people, working in conjunction with the admissions office, traveling to high schools, doing workshops with students and parents. And stayed there for about three years, got my master's degree in Higher Education Administration. And the next day, literally after walking across the stage, I moved to North Carolina and worked at North Carolina State University, working with students, veterans, children of veterans, making sure that they had all of their benefits as it related to financial aid. And stayed there for a few years, left and worked at a community college, so I was over enrollment management at that Community College, which is all the aspects of enrollment, so from the recruitment, admissions, financial aid, all the way through graduation. Theresa: And then left and went to the great State of Virginia [chuckle] and worked at Virginia Commonwealth University in the enrollment management space, and then circled back to come home and run the Detroit office for the University of Michigan undergraduate admissions. So 20 years, [laughter] that's the career. And so now, I have branched off from working at a university to help students regardless of where they want to attend. When you work in higher education, you're kind of committed to that institution, but what we know is that students have lots of options and don't understand that process of different places and where they can go, and so my job is to help them navigate it. Mikki: That's amazing. So how do you help them navigate that process? If you could just sort of give us a big picture, 'cause some people might not be familiar with this. We know maybe at high school, they have a college counselor, but sort of what makes what you do different from that? Theresa: So I always tell parents that we work in conjunction with the counselor. We are not a replacement of a high school guidance counselor because I'm not gonna see your student daily, but what we do is help them plan and strategize. So I started working with students, some as young as eighth grade... Mikki: Wow. Theresa: Especially in areas where there are tests to take to get into the high school, we talk about what the best high school, whatever best means to you, may be, and strategies about test taking and things of that nature, while also working with them to talk about how do we come up with a career plan. Often, students will say things, "I wanna be a doctor." Okay, have you shadowed a doctor? "I wanna be a nurse," but you can't stand the sight of your own blood, like this doesn't work. So we help them come up with ideas about how they should spend their summers, how they can get internships, and there's a lot of planning that happens prior to senior year, so I need people to understand, we don't just dive in senior year and try to figure out all these essays, there's lots of planning that happens prior to the senior year to prepare the student for the application process as a senior. Mikki: Wow Okay. I know as a parent having a middle schooler, this is... I start to panic when we have this conversation, so I'm taking my deep breaths. So, any moms, don't panic. There's always help. Theresa: Don't panic. There is help. Mikki: Don't panic. [chuckle] So I think one of the things you and I met and talked, and we share a mutual friend, and so what I was really fascinated with when Theresa and I were talking, is the connection between divorce and something like this, where your student is getting ready to go to the next transition point in their life, the next evolution, and it's stressful. What you just laid out there is a lot for a child, I think. And they are... They're children, it's a lot for them to think about, but then when we heap divorce on top of it, what do you find to be the biggest struggle for kids that come from divorced families? Theresa: So there are a number of struggles, [chuckle] being a kid of divorce myself, I recognize and understand the struggles. One of the things could be about where the parents even want the student to apply. This parent A went to University ABC, parent B went to University XYZ, and I want you to go to my school. Well, they can't go to both as an undergrad. So even where they're going to apply. Who's paying for this also becomes a major conflict, which I don't believe children should necessarily be involved in that conversation. I can talk about strategies and things that I do to help parents navigate that before we even get to meeting with the student, but those are big conflicts about how is it gonna get paid and who's paying it, and actually, where is this child gonna end up. Whether the parent is an alumni or they have these ideas of, again, "best." "This is the best school, and I want you to go to the best school," which may not be the best fit. Your child may not be a student who needs to be in a large public university environment. I can figure that out meeting with the student whether that's gonna work. Theresa: Maybe your child needs to be in a small private or mid-sized university. Your child may not be prepared to go out of state, and you may be pushing this child. So students struggle with, "Who am I supposed to be listening to? They're both telling me conflicting things and they're just stuck in the middle," which is often what happens with children of divorce. Mikki: So I love that you brought that up, Theresa, because I think this is something that I talk a lot about with my clients and what you just hit on, but it really comes down to our expectations. And what you just described are parental expectations of what should be happening, and then you have two sets of them going on side by side, which leaves the child in the middle. And it's already a stressful process, it's already difficult just because of the situation, but then when they have these expectations that are... I love Brené Brown, always reminds us that expectations are just resentments waiting to happen. Theresa: Absolutely, I love her. [chuckle] Mikki: I know, could not be more true. And so the work that I'm always trying to do on this podcast and with clients is focusing on what is the priority, what is the value, and so staying really child-focused here. If I'm understanding what you're saying, it's how can we funnel it to really look at, who is this kid? What does this child need? And how can we support them? And so what are some of the ways that you help families do that, especially if there's conflict? Theresa: So when I meet with families, I typically meet with parents first without the student because I need to understand what the dynamics are before I meet with the student. Also, I tell people, working with me is a fit as well. We may not be a fit. So we have to have a conversation to make sure we're all on the same page, and my primary thing to tell them is exactly what you just said, "Our focus, my focus, your focus should be on your student. That's our primary focus." And so while you may have these ideas in your head of what will work for your student, I may see things that you don't see based on my profession. I've done this for 20 years. I see a lot. [laughter] And sometimes, as a parent, you may be so close that you don't see certain things. I'm a little step away and I'm a fresh set of eyes, or four eyes, if I got my glasses on, to see something a little bit different. Theresa: The other thing that I tell them is, keep them out of the conflict. Whatever conversations that you all need to have as adults, please have them separate and apart from your children. This process is stressful enough on students, whether they are ninth and 10th graders trying to figure out what their career path would be, what summer is gonna look like for them, if they're a senior getting ready to start writing essays, they are under enough stress, more stress than any of us have ever been under at that age, they don't need your conflict on top of it, and you're making them pick, and they don't have a side, they're just in the middle. Just leave them neutral. But we all have to come up with a plan, and that plan is, number one, what are we talking about financially? Because that then dictates a lot of where we're applying, how many schools we're gonna apply to because there are application fees involved. But we have to come up with the plan, your coach and the parents, what are we looking at? Because we have to have the conversation so that, again, that disappointment doesn't happen later with the student, they're applying to these elite schools or Ivy league schools, they don't get a scholarship and you come around and say, "Well, we don't have the money." Theresa: Now they're disappointed because we never had the conversation about, "Here's the threshold," [chuckle] this is how much we can afford to pay. And so often, I find parents are hesitant to have the conversation, but there's a disappointment on it, and if we don't have it. So I encourage us to come up with a plan early so that when I finally meet with your student, we talk about funding, what this really looks like. And we're talking funding for five years, we're not talking about one year, that's it. College is four to five years, and typically right now, it's about five years for them to complete, so who's gonna be able to pay the $50,000, the $40,000, whatever it is, for five years? Mikki: Wow, yeah. Theresa: And so unless we're willing to do all this work with scholarships, this is what our threshold is. And I tell the people who are my clients and parents, be positive, be positive with them, encourage them and just let them know you're there, but stay out of my process. But just be a parent, don't try to be the college coach, don't try to be the college counselor, because that's not your role. Be positive and be a supportive parent. Mikki: Okay. So somebody might be asking like, "Well, what does that look like?" What if they don't have someone like you in their corner? How can they be the parent there and support their child and be positive? Theresa: Listen to your student. If they're telling you, "I don't wanna apply to that school," explore why, don't just let them tell you, "No, I'm not doing it." Tell me why you don't wanna do it. And listen to what they're saying because the last thing you want is a student applying to a school, getting in, you drop them off and they flunk out because they never wanted to be there, they don't put the effort in. So number one, listen. Two, if you don't have a coach, be aware of deadlines, encourage the deadlines, but don't take over the application process. You have to empower your young person to go through this process and stay on top of deadlines. When they go away to college, you're not gonna be there to wake them up, "It's time to go to school, it's time to go to class." You have to start empowering them to be adults, and being an adult means I have a calendar, and I joke with every one of my students about, you all have these smartphones, but you don't use the calendar. [chuckle] Such a great little tool in there. But you should be putting everything in a calendar and it should be ahead of the deadline, so that you're prepared. Theresa: That's how we want them to grow up and live. You're not gonna do this for them forever, so empower them to take control of their application process and keep your parental relationship intact. One of my students joked with me, and she said, "I'm so happy to have you because now at dinner, we can actually talk about other things besides admissions." Mikki: Oh, my gosh. Theresa: So keep your parental relationship intact. They will not come to you with things if every time we have a conversation, it involves, "Well, what's going on with your application? Well, did you do this, did you do that?" That's not what they need from you all day, every day. Sometimes, they just need to chat, "This is what happened at school today, my practice didn't go so great. My game wasn't great." And be a parent. Keep that intact. Please, keep that relationship intact. And have fun, go on those college visits, go on those tours with them and have fun with them because that time [chuckle] goes by so quickly. You look up and you're like... You just apply, now it's graduation, and wait, we gotta pack up the car, you're leaving? It goes by so quickly. So enjoy them and have fun with them. Mikki: Oh, I love all of that advice, and especially the listening. I think that's the... So often, we forget the listening part We don't want to see our kids struggle, we don't wanna see them flounder, and so we think we can fix it, and what we're ending up doing is not listening and not hearing, to your point of asking why. The question why is fantastic. Also, tell me everything and say nothing, just listen for whatever comes up, and so I love that you pointed that out because they have so much to say, but unless we give them that opportunity, they won't do it. So what are some of the strategies that you've seen work when they're planning in two houses? Because a lot of times, it's like the logistical things. Yes, you might be managing the deadlines, sort of keeping an eye on them, and I know having someone like you to support is so crucial, especially if there's conflict. So how do you help your parents when there's two houses, when there's conflict? How do you help them navigate that process? Theresa: So one of the tools that we use, we use a tool so that as I'm meeting with students, I can... It's almost like going to the doctor's office and they're putting notes into your chart. There are notes in a system, and so when I have meetings, the note goes to both parents. In that way, there's no confusion about what I've talked about with your student, there's no confusion about what's going on with your student because it's all in the notes. Individually, I will have parents call me separately, which is totally fine because sometimes, the conflict is so strong that we can't have a joint meeting. Theresa: I've also had the opposite where every time I met with students, both parents were present and it was totally fine, but sometimes, okay, parent A needs to call me, have the conversation, parent B needs to call me, we have the same conversation. Fine. I am clear with them that, "I'm talking to both of you, I'm telling you about the same thing, so that there's no confusion about what's happening with your student." But I keep the focus again on that student. Whatever conflict they have, I'm not... This is always my thing, "I'm not getting in the middle of your personal conflict. I'm not getting in the middle of, well, this one said they were gonna pay your bill this month, just please somebody figure out how it's getting paid. But I'm not getting in the middle of that, I am focused on your student and their success." So... Mikki: Got it. Theresa: It's focusing there, it's not, "Well, we're divorced because of this reason," no. I also tell parents up front, if I see things in your student that give me red flags, I will call you and tell you, we may need to get a professional involved. I believe in therapy. I am not a therapist, but if a student starts telling me things that I think are harmful to them in terms of just the conflict that they're hearing and seeing, I immediately call. Mikki: Yeah. Theresa: What happened this weekend? Suzie told me this, and I'm concerned that she's now more focused on your conflict than our application process. So we might need to get somebody in the middle of this so that you all can have... And I have parents who do it, and we have people that we work with that are therapists and we do referrals out so that they're getting that conflict dealt with. We can't do that, that's not our role, but if it's interfering with the process and I see the student is upset, I am going to say something to the parent. Mikki: Okay. I love that you brought that up, sort of the mental health component of it. There are times we all need support, whether that's therapy, whether that's a service that you're offering, coaching, that's normalizing the process and getting kids the help that they need. It's staggering to me the stress that our children are under from a younger and younger age at this point and without the capabilities and the capacity to handle it. And so really having an extra set of hands and eyes on your child is so important, but I love that you brought that up, just trying to keep it very focused on the child. I think the one thing that I'm hearing as a thread while you're talking, which I wanna point out, and sort of, is the clarity, having the hard conversations, laying out expectations clearly, really just communicating. Mikki: And I know often with many of my clients, they're like, "Well, X doesn't... " Or, "The other co-parent doesn't communicate back, so why should I bother?" But I think it's still very important to communicate regardless of what's in return because you're being clear, and I think to your point, it's clarity is what supports your kid the most. Theresa: Yes, and the students need to know, you have their best interest at heart. Not whatever conflict is going on or did go on. They are making decisions thinking about me first, not anything else 'cause that's what's important, and we're all on the same page in the same book, in the same chapter, [chuckle] you're not reading a different book. We are on the book here in this chapter, on this page, and that's what's important. Mikki: If you're willing to talk about it, how has your past and you being a child of divorce sort of helped you to support children now that are in that situation? Theresa: That's where the listening came from. I'm of a particular age where we were basically told children are meant to be seen and not heard. Mikki: Oh yeah, well that's... You know... Theresa: And it wasn't until I was an adult, and I mean really an adult, where I felt like I could communicate to my parents about how that conflict made me feel and having to pick sides, and there's not a site to be picked. So having that experience let me know and understand how important it was to listen. There are often times where students come in and all they do is tell me the stuff that happened over the weekend... We can't even get to the application, and I just listen because it's so important that they are heard. I did not have that as a child 'cause that's just not... Generationally, that's just not what we... And parents were working and doing all the things, and I'm not sure they had all the time in the world to even hear us. Mikki: Sure. Theresa: But now, you have to make that time and you have to sit and have the conversations, even if it hurts your feelings as a parent. The conversations I've had as an adult, I am sure I hurt my parents’ feelings, I am positive... But after I had to go to therapy for myself to deal with those things, it was important for me to communicate with them. Now, okay, "Dad listen. I appreciate how hard you worked and the overtime and all the things you did, but there were some gaps here and can we talk about how you grew up?" I have a better understanding now of my father as an adult than I did as a child because now we have this time to actually talk and listen to each other and hear each other out. Theresa: And once you understand, "Oh, my parent's just a person, like I'm a person that had all these things growing up," you gain a better understanding of them. And sometimes I know parents, again, don't want students to struggle or they don't want them to hear certain things, but sometimes you should share. This is how I grew up. And sometimes you might have been in a household that had two parents, but they acted like they were divorced [laughter] and so once you have that understanding and you share some things with your young person, they may kind of ease up a little bit. Sometimes kids may be harsh, but they will ease up once they understand your struggle as well, understanding you as a person, not just as a "parent." Mikki: Yeah. I love that and I think also taking it one step further, because always understand, trying to figure out, what should I share and what shouldn't I share? Oftentimes, I like to ask myself, who is the beneficiary of this information? Is it benefiting them because it is bringing clarity and understanding and, sort of, love and kindness or is it really... Am I saying it to benefit myself, to feel validated, to feel vindicated? Just in your body, that feels very different. One feels very expansive, one feels a little bit more closed, and so I agree with you 100%. And making sure that you're always sharing from a place that it's benefiting your child. Mikki: One of the things that we often talk about, that I talk about with my clients, is being very cognizant of what you say about the other parent because that child is 50% them, so when we tear down the other parent, you're tearing that person down, but you're tearing the kid down. And so they internalize that and especially, I can only imagine when you have sort of deep roots at a college... I went here, I went there. And so it's a very fine line. And so I think just always turning back inward to ask yourself, "How am I presenting this, how am I talking about it, and how am I being supportive and child-focused?" So I just wanted to sort of reinforce that. Well, as much as I'd like to keep you all day and talk to you... I do wanna be respectful of your time. This is Co-Parenting with Confidence, so I would be remiss if I didn't ask you this question, but how do you define confidence? Theresa: I think confidence is having a feeling and belief that you're assured about something or assured about somebody... My parents will say, "I have confidence Theresa's gonna do what she's supposed to do in terms of coaching and making sure my student is okay." But I would love to see co-parents with the confidence that the other parent is putting the student first. So it's that belief and the feeling and a knowing really, that, "You know what, I'm assured that this person or this thing is gonna work out." That's confidence for me. Mikki: Oh, I love that. That's a great definition. Well, thank you so much. I'm going to have everything in the link for the show notes, but tell us how we can get in touch with you and how you communicate with people so that they can reach out. Theresa: So our company is called Root, R-O-O-T College Advising. We are on all social media platforms, so Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, we're everywhere, and Root collegeadvising.com is our website. My business partners and I are there. You can click on our bios to figure out who you wanna talk to and work with, if we have availability. There's a telephone number you can call to reach out to us or send us an email and we'll respond. And we do a free consult with families before we get into a process of having a contract, just to see, one, if you have availability and then two, if there is a fit for what it is that you want for your student. Mikki: Perfect. Well, thank you again, Theresa, so much for being here, for sharing your expertise and these amazing points, and I will have everything in the show notes and just thank you so much. I think it's been wonderful. Theresa: Thank you so much. This was great. Mikki: Oh, I took so many things away from this conversation, and I just wanted to point out a few. One, Theresa suggests that we really keep it child-focused. They're the priority, it's about them, don't let them get stuck in the middle. And keep the kids out of the adult conversations. Whatever adult conversation needs to happen, do it separate and apart from them. The process is stressful enough, and they're under more stress at this age than any of us ever were, and they don't need to have to pick sides because there isn't a side for them to pick. They are the priority. Mikki: She suggests having a plan, be clear, set expectations, decide realistically what can happen ahead of time. Talking about finances, who's paying? How that's gonna work? And two, be positive, encourage them, stay out of the decision and just allow them to make it, with support, of course, but be positive and be the parent, keep that relationship intact. You're not the counselor, you're not the one applying to college, so allow them to talk about other things for you just to be the mom. Number three, listen to your kid. There's so many opportunities for us to learn more about what they're thinking and feeling when we just listen. And four, empower your kid to manage the process. Start powering them now to be the adult that you want them to be. And five, have fun. It goes so fast. They're about ready to transition into the next phase of their life, so enjoy it while you have them. Mikki: I hope you enjoyed the interview as much as I did, and if you did, I'd be so grateful if you would share it with others, maybe a mom who has a kid who is getting ready to start this process. We could all use some extra support and I love hanging out on Instagram, so if you share it there, please tag me and tag Theresa so that we can connect with you too. Thank you so much for spending this time with me. I'll see you next week, and in the meantime, take really, really good care of you. Mikki: Thanks for listening to Co-Parenting with Confidence. If you want more information or resources from this podcast, visit co-parentingwithconfidence.com. I'll see you next week.